American Civil War [Quenched]

Suzy1 · Post by **Suzy1** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:47 pm

Dim, I read your comments and think it sounds more like an attack than an opinion. Whereas, everyone is entitled to their opinion. The way I see it is, if there really isn't anything that you like about this map, then more than likely you won't be playing it, right? This map has had many comments made in the foundry before it was ever considered for final forge. I think that Elijah has taken the criticism, both constructive (from those who make valid arguments) and otherwise. This is his first map and I think he has done a great job on it. The reason it is in FF is because there are some things that can still be worked on, but I like it and so does many other players here. It's a matter of taste. There are playable maps here that I don't like at all and I simply do not play them. I won't menton them because, as all maps, someone isn't going to like them. I know that Elijah takes every post here to heart. he truly is an artist and definitely has something to offer conquerclub with his talent. He will fine tune this map. He has put more hours on this map in the past couple months than some people do in 6-8 months. I think that you insult the foundry somewhat by implying that this map is worthless and yet they put it through to FF. Many in the foundry have helped Elijah with this map with tips they use on their own maps. I do hope Elijah continues with this map and doesn't get disheartened by your negativity.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:32 pm

Well I am going to have to agree with DiM on most counts. This map does not look like it deserves FF.

1) I have to disagree with Dim on this just being a good first draft. It is not horrible but there are many things that should be fixed. Good but NOT FF ready.

2)Letters are hard to read in smoe spots and this is the large map. I think teh small map will be very difficult to read.

3) Colors are way to dark and it does have a sense of blurriness.

4) I disagree that the legend is dull. I think it is hard to read and will be harder to read in the small version.

5) I disagree with Dim about leaving and learning photoshop. You seem to have a good grasp on things. You just need to clean up a few things and get the overall look of the map to be more consistent and easy to look at.

6) One thing DiM did not mention was the small map. Right now your large is 700 wide. If you made this 800, there would be much more room for text and clarity.

So my main suggestions are:
-To increase the large map so the small map will look better.
-Mess with you brush settings so you get cleaner smoother lines for your borders.
-Find out how many colors you need for the territories and play around in photoshop looking at different color pallets. This way you can see which one look good together.
-make your army circle easer to see
-Try to see if there is a way to make all of the territory names the same color. Again his might be a good idea to put some text over the different colors to see what looks best. Plus play with different glows and strokes.

So while I am not attacking you personally because I don't know you,I do not feel this map should be in FF but that does not mean abandon it.

I am sorry that I did not post on this sooner. I have been really busy and life outside CC sometimes is more important.

Suzy1 wrote:He will fine tune this map. He has put more hours on this map in the past couple months than some people do in 6-8 months.

Well I have made or revamped 8 maps on this site (in the past 9 month) and I can tell you I have probable spent several hundred hours on them. Making maps look good is not easy. It takes time and patience.

But just because someone has spent a lot of time on something does not make it ready to be done.

Here is a list of some the first maps I did.
I could have gotten discouraged and quit but I did not.
DNA
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14083
Rubix Cube (sorry cant find the pic, it was a bad map anyway)
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... ight=rubix

I mean look at this

That is what KOTM looked like at the beginning. I probably redid the entire map 4 times. And by redid i mean completely started over.

WM

Elijah S · Post by **Elijah S** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:55 pm

Okay...
Go ahead and move my map back to the foundry, or to map ideas as some have suggested...

It's just not worth it.

Thanks for all the "latent" input.

Tisha · Post by **Tisha** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:01 pm

really...what good is it doing his telling his that u think his map doesn't deserve to be in final forge?

Suzy1 · Post by **Suzy1** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:25 pm

Elijah, considering recent posts that have literally called your map no good, I can understand how frustrated you must be, enough to make you want to throw in the towel. I do hope you reconsider. I have gone in and viewed maps made by some of the same people that are tearing yours apart. I find it interesting that Gimil was blatant about his negative comments (although, offering help at the same time) is good friends with Dim, who seemingly came in with nothing else in mind but to give as negative feedback as possible. Widowmakers has been the only one that has said anything that sounds constructive. I think before this is pulled from FF, Coleman, Andy, Cairns and whoever else has not only put you through this far but gave input on helping you make adjustments, etc., should respond to these posts. My quote about you finetuning this map was not to say that there aren't some things that need be addressed. I just really think it unfair, that now you are in FF, people have so much to say, when your map has been in the foundry for quite some time now and they were nowhere to be heard from. Please give it more time...

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:19 pm

Suzy1 wrote:I just really think it unfair, that now you are in FF, people have so much to say, when your map has been in the foundry for quite some time now and they were nowhere to be heard from. Please give it more time...

It is not that I think it is a bad map. I just did not expect it to get to FF looking like this.

I don't want this map to be stopped and I don't think it is bad.

I just think it is not worthy of FF based on how it looks. It needs a graphical overhaul.

WM

Elijah S · Post by **Elijah S** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:39 pm

Suzy-
Thanks for your support in this, but the entire thing has left such a bitter taste in my mouth that I think it's best for me to get away from this site for a while, maybe permanently.
I don't even want to make moves in my games at this point. You have my password, if you don't mind?

I've tried to make everyone happy, addressing each issue promptly, sometimes even compromising when I didn't agree.

For several of the foundry members to wait until now to completely pan my work is something I really don't get, but I feel like I've been insulted and humiliated... and for what? -The "honor" of contributing a map to a site I truly enjoyed?

Screw it. I'll save my $25 and get back to some projects I've had on hold.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:59 pm

I realy dont know why you think that people insult you,i give you opinion that rivers dont look good,and you imediatly thinking that i have something against you.
Look Netherland map topic,author get Final forge status and then he redesign complete all map,why?Because he see that can create better map.

Suzy1 · Post by **Suzy1** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:21 pm

MPL · Post by **MPL** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:50 pm

I don't get the legend what are the light green

yamahafazer · Post by **yamahafazer** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:09 am

COME ON PEOPLE!!!!! you are all say with some exeptions why this guye is leaveing!!!!!!

READ THE POSTS!!!!! THINK!!!!!!!!! If you had all that said about YOUR PRESHUS maps how would YOU feal!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

If you have nothing constructive to say SUT UP AND GET LOST

This dose not go for WiddowMaker as he achualy gave sugestions...

but DiM and gimil!!!! Why do you even bother when the only reason you post is to say this is trash....

HEY I HATE the new pearl harbur map... AND I WILL NEVER BE PLAYING ON IT!!!!! This does NOT mean that I go and trash it in it's feed cos there must be some who like it.....

So my final word is: gimil and DiM GET LOST!!!!!!

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:51 am

qwert wrote:I realy dont know why you think that people insult you,i give you opinion that rivers dont look good,and you imediatly thinking that i have something against you.
Look Netherland map topic,author get Final forge status and then he redesign complete all map,why?Because he see that can create better map.

listen to this man. his map threads contain hundreds of pages of arguing, nitpicking, and bitching. he has abandoned his maps countless times. his maps take 6-8 months to complete.

but he has some of the finest maps on the site, in play.

Rictus · Post by **Rictus** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:52 am

FWIW - my least favourite map graphically (Brazil) is also one of my favourites to play. Game play is more important to me than graphics - fact. By all means do everything in your power to make things look as good as they can - I'm all for aesthetics. But there's a horrible baby/bathwater syndrome developing here that I'm not sure I much care for...

Elijah S · Post by **Elijah S** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:41 am

I've asked Andy that this remain in FF while I address the recent barrage of complaints. -I think that I deserve this much consideration.

After a night of drinking, (and with a serious headache this morning) I've decided that too much work has been put into my map to not go on, and plan to see this through to completion.

When this was moved into FF I was thrilled and thought that I'd accomplished something to be proud of... I called my doubles partner, Suzy, at 2 am to tell her the great news.
Why so many chose to comment on this map only after it reached FF is a mystery to me. -Surely they are aware of the hours it took to do this, and the hours it will take to re-do it...

Gimil and Dim- I've looked at your maps and will place my comments in the appropriate threads. Afterall, it's a two-way street.

Widowmakers- Showing up only after being summoned by the whining complaints about my map making it to FF, kindof discounts what was a considerable amount of admiration I've had for your work.
But you at least didn't resort to some of the terms used by the illustrious dim and provided some straight-forward advice. -Thanks for that.

Qwert- Your maps are some of those that I enjoy most in CC and I fully appreciate the time and effort put into your projects.
I never felt like you were attacking or insulting me, only giving your opinion.
And despite feeling like I've been put completely on the defensive, I really don't take these attacks as a "personnal" thing. I do take some of the comments by dim as little more than rude insults, and will have some input for his threads too...

Yamahafazer- You took the time to check in on this map from the start, and I appreciate that at least one other person recognizes the frustration these recent posts have caused. Thanks!

To sum it up- This mapmaker will be on vacation for a while as I look into different programs and techniques to apply to the next version.

Suzy1 will be making my moves. -She's a great player and won't go suicide on anyone, so no worries there. lol
And thanks to you Suzy for being, not only a great partner, but wonderful friend. -I always know you've got my back!

illusions850 · Post by **illusions850** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:44 am

who gives a crap what color the borders are???

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:45 am

Good decision...

I like this map - the idea & the play look good to me...

I can see what people are saying about GFX... but I'm not going to comment on that as a) it's not my remit b) I can't do any better.

C.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:30 pm

I'm glad you are sticking with the map, Elijah. Sometimes Vacations can be good to clear your mind and sort everything out.

I look forward to when you take back the reigns and start traveling again.

--Andy

Elijah S · Post by **Elijah S** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:57 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I'm glad you are sticking with the map, Elijah. Sometimes Vacations can be good to clear your mind and sort everything out. I look forward to when you take back the reigns and start traveling again.

--Andy

Thanks Andy... I couldn't agree with you more, and when I tackle it again I'll be a man on a mission!

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:59 pm

Qwert- Your maps are some of those that I enjoy most in CC and I fully appreciate the time and effort put into your projects.
I never felt like you were attacking or insulting me, only giving your opinion.
And despite feeling like I've been put completely on the defensive, I really don't take these attacks as a "personnal" thing. I do take some of the comments by dim as little more than rude insults, and will have some input for his threads too...

No problem, i only give opinion what concern of graphic or game play.
I know that yours map go very fast from Map idea to Final Forge,but these is not yours fault,people dont give you feedback to better create map,but i belive that here in Final Forge you can continue To fix and redesign all issue what people thinking that is not look good,and to create very good map. I have pass very long way on mine maps,and i know that creating maps is not easy job.

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:21 pm

besides the borders I don't see what graphical issues people have with the map.

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:30 pm

So is this map on Vacation?

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:22 pm

reverend_kyle wrote:besides the borders I don't see what graphical issues people have with the map.

I think its more of a forest issue than one of the trees.

Suzy1 · Post by **Suzy1** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:15 am

Elijah, I am so glad that you have reconsidered removing this map from FF. I know how dedicated you are to anything that you take on. I also know that you are capable of making this map the best that it can be. You always rise to any challenge. You are so much better than you have gotten credit for here.

yamahafazer · Post by **yamahafazer** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:48 am

Ok mate... I look forward to seeing your next post whenever that may be...

Have a good rest..

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:47 am

I think the colors should be a bit more sepia or "in period".

like this, except that the blue now looks green, but you get the idea, tone it down. and tone it brown.

American Civil War [Quenched]

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