Logic dictates that there is a God!

[2dimes]

And I have read the Bible, I just didn't jump on the bandwagon.

Did you like the talking donkey?

[dacey]

And I have read the Bible, I just didn't jump on the bandwagon.

Did you like the talking donkey?

Yea, it just makes the rest of the book all the more believable, right?

[2dimes]

And I have read the Bible, I just didn't jump on the bandwagon.

Did you like the talking donkey?

Yea, it just makes the rest of the book all the more believable, right?

It's up to everyone to decide for themselves wether or not to believe. Much like everything in life.

[TheShiningSun]

I'm not going to read through 197 pages of posts so this may have been argued before, I do not know.

I wish to go back to the original post and debate this.

Then you trace back all life to its orgin...the very first living thing.

Where did it come from?

The ONLY answer is someting or someone has always existed. And that someone or something must have the power to create (or reproduce).

There must be a God.

I agree that you cannot just have an inanimate object start reproducing. Thus I have no problem with your argument that someone or something must have always existed. My question to you is, why must this someone or something have to be the christian god?

I believe that if there is a God, by the very definition of the word, it must be so complex and so omnipotent that it should be beyond our ability to comprehend both the actions and the ideals behind what is being done.

I see no reason why science and religion cannot both be correct on the issue of the origin of life and evolution. For example, if I had to stamp with a slightly different pattern 10 million sheets of paper, why would I do it by hand instead of making a machine to do it for me. Likewise, why would God whoever or whatever that may be, want to create each and every single organism when they could set up a system, say evolution, which would accomplish the same thing with much less effort?

Why is it impossible that both God and Evolution are true? That God set evolution in process and let it run its own course?

Thats all for now

[Senfive]

First I am wondering how old you are? Second who in this world said everyone should think as you do? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about who created the cosmo's, wether we all came from primordial soup like you claim or wether there is some greater being than us all.

I'm 19 and a senior (in college) majoring in Biochemistry and Math, so I have taken enough classes in science to know that we didn't come from Adam and Eve. And we are all entitled to our own opinions, its just annoying when you throw out the facts to state yours. For instance, I would be really annoying if I kept saying that the sky is green when clearly it is not.

You clearly missed the concept of this thread. You have yet to "logicly" theorize why you believe we came from primordial soup. Plenty of other people have given there proof yet you haven't. You tell people to go read that book by Robert Wright. How is that different than Jay or any other telling you to go read the bible? It's not. So step down off your soap box and tell us all why you believe in evolution so much. This time try not to call anyone out due to what they believe or not believe.

I wasn't saying that he should read a book and believe every word that is written in it, because that is a stupid thing to do with any book. It gives insight as to why we believe in God (it is, in fact, human nature, which is why very different Gods have been created in every country through different beliefs). And its just an interesting book, even if I don't believe all of it (and I don't). Why should I go and repeat what every other person has logically said previously if I believe essentially the same thing? I explained that, if you want, they can live in harmony, thats all. I think its pretty obvious what I believe and I need not try to reprove what you'll be learning in a few (maybe more?) years anyway.
And I have read the Bible, I just didn't jump on the bandwagon.

Again at 19 years old you seem to think everything you are taught is 100% fact. Evolution is only a theory and so is Creationism. Agreed you think that everything that is taught in school is fact, just like everything on the news is the truth. I am 21 yrs old, and not one thing anyone has taught me have I taken as the sole truth like you seem to have. I take everything with a grain of salt. Your lame excuse at a flame outside of Flame Wars, tells me not take you very seriously. Agreed some people are fanatics about what they believe but at least they can make valid arguments without insulting someones views or their age.

Growing up in a church going family, I was taught all about the bible. I had many questions that I still haven't gotten answers too. I have read many differnt religious books and many science refrences. Way too many holes and questions unanswered for me to take one side over the other. I like to be given proof that their is a God, or isn't, before I fully commit myself. Therefore until I am left behind, or we creat a time machine to go back to the "Big Bang", I will only half heartedly believe. People believe what they want to believe and I don't slam anyone for it. I slam ignorant, short sighted people just getting out of college, like you claim, who think they are high and mighty like yourself. Let others believe what they want. it doesn't hurt you or me. No one is 100% right either way.

[Senfive]

I'm not going to read through 197 pages of posts so this may have been argued before, I do not know.

I wish to go back to the original post and debate this.

Then you trace back all life to its orgin...the very first living thing.

Where did it come from?

The ONLY answer is someting or someone has always existed. And that someone or something must have the power to create (or reproduce).

There must be a God.

I agree that you cannot just have an inanimate object start reproducing. Thus I have no problem with your argument that someone or something must have always existed. My question to you is, why must this someone or something have to be the christian god?

Where did you get Christian God in the above quote? I must have missed that. He claimed to say that there is a God. Not Christian, not Muslim, not Jewish, not Eygptian. I am just curious.

[TheShiningSun]

Alot of people believe in evolution and God. But it can't be the Christian God cause it contradicts his word.

God and Science need not be opposing forces. Its just futile and sad to use the knoledge God gave man...to try and disprove God

This was quoted later on and based on a few of his posts, I am assuming that he is referring to the christian God. My question on that point to him is, why must his god be the one that is correct?

[jay_a2j]

Alot of people believe in evolution and God. But it can't be the Christian God cause it contradicts his word.

God and Science need not be opposing forces. Its just futile and sad to use the knoledge God gave man...to try and disprove God

This was quoted later on and based on a few of his posts, I am assuming that he is referring to the christian God. My question on that point to him is, why must his god be the one that is correct?

That is a question that each individual must seek an answer to for him/herself. For me, there is no doubt that the Christian God is the one true God. Jesus is, who He said He was.

[TheShiningSun]

Alot of people believe in evolution and God. But it can't be the Christian God cause it contradicts his word.

God and Science need not be opposing forces. Its just futile and sad to use the knoledge God gave man...to try and disprove God

This was quoted later on and based on a few of his posts, I am assuming that he is referring to the christian God. My question on that point to him is, why must his god be the one that is correct?

That is a question that each individual must seek an answer to for him/herself. For me, there is no doubt that the Christian God is the one true God. Jesus is, who He said He was.

That being said, if I seek my answer, and I find a God so infinately complex and not opposed in any way to the assumptions of science, why is my logic not sound?

Science also dictates evolution could never have happened

[Heimdall]

For me, there is no doubt that the Christian God is the one true God. Jesus is, who He said He was.

And you're going to believe some crazy lunatic?

[Senfive]

For me, there is no doubt that the Christian God is the one true God. Jesus is, who He said He was.

And you're going to believe some crazy lunatic?

You seem to miss the Flame Wars Threads Also. EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. Jay exclaimed his yet you want to attack him. Why is that the ignorant must attack that which they can't comprehend?

[jay_a2j]

Alot of people believe in evolution and God. But it can't be the Christian God cause it contradicts his word.

God and Science need not be opposing forces. Its just futile and sad to use the knoledge God gave man...to try and disprove God

This was quoted later on and based on a few of his posts, I am assuming that he is referring to the christian God. My question on that point to him is, why must his god be the one that is correct?

That is a question that each individual must seek an answer to for him/herself. For me, there is no doubt that the Christian God is the one true God. Jesus is, who He said He was.

That being said, if I seek my answer, and I find a God so infinately complex and not opposed in any way to the assumptions of science, why is my logic not sound?

Science also dictates evolution could never have happened

If you deem it sound, then I guess it is for you. Many here already have come to that conclusion, but what if?.....

[dacey]

Again at 19 years old you seem to think everything you are taught is 100% fact. Evolution is only a theory and so is Creationism. Agreed you think that everything that is taught in school is fact, just like everything on the news is the truth. I am 21 yrs old, and not one thing anyone has taught me have I taken as the sole truth like you seem to have. I take everything with a grain of salt. Your lame excuse at a flame outside of Flame Wars, tells me not take you very seriously. Agreed some people are fanatics about what they believe but at least they can make valid arguments without insulting someones views or their age.

Growing up in a church going family, I was taught all about the bible. I had many questions that I still haven't gotten answers too. I have read many differnt religious books and many science refrences. Way too many holes and questions unanswered for me to take one side over the other. I like to be given proof that their is a God, or isn't, before I fully commit myself. Therefore until I am left behind, or we creat a time machine to go back to the "Big Bang", I will only half heartedly believe. People believe what they want to believe and I don't slam anyone for it. I slam ignorant, short sighted people just getting out of college, like you claim, who think they are high and mighty like yourself. Let others believe what they want. it doesn't hurt you or me. No one is 100% right either way.

I don't think that everything I have learned is 100% fact. Why else would I not believe in creationism? I have a ton of questions because of all of all that I have seen, and I need not go in to that in detail (its mainly that I don't understand why a god would allow children to be beaten and others starve, among many, many other things. I'm not saying that the big bang is 100% true. Not even scientists all say that (there are many theories, this is just the most popular one). All I'm saying is that I believe in what has given me the most evidence.
Also, I'm not really sure what you are referring to as a flame. I only asked how old the person was because they are the one believing in something without using logic, yet telling everyone else that they are illogical.

In any case, this thread is beginning to bore me, so I wont be reading anymore useless arguments about a topic no one will ever agree on anyway.

Have fun!

[Heimdall]

For me, there is no doubt that the Christian God is the one true God. Jesus is, who He said He was.

And you're going to believe some crazy lunatic?

You seem to miss the Flame Wars Threads Also. EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. Jay exclaimed his yet you want to attack him. Why is that the ignorant must attack that which they can't comprehend?

The only one i'm flaming is Jesus and he ain't reading this so get over it. It's MY OPINION that Jesus was a lunatic.

If you deem it sound, then I guess it is for you. Many here already have come to that conclusion, but what if?.....

What If? What if the Muslims re right and the one true God is Allah. You've probably piss off Allah by believing in God. CAn't live on "What if" otherwise you better start praying to every god/allah/buddah there is.

[Senfive]

For me, there is no doubt that the Christian God is the one true God. Jesus is, who He said He was.

And you're going to believe some crazy lunatic?

You seem to miss the Flame Wars Threads Also. EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. Jay exclaimed his yet you want to attack him. Why is that the ignorant must attack that which they can't comprehend?

The only one i'm flaming is Jesus and he ain't reading this so get over it. It's MY OPINION that Jesus was a lunatic.

So you saying that, you are insulting someone elses Religious figure because you reason he isn't here. How does that make it right? Also you admitted you were flaming so take it to the Flame Wars Page you Twit.

[Beastly]

[
so you don't believe it took him seven days? interesting...

The bible says that 1 day is as a thousand years to god. so the seven days could mean 7 thousand years. Also, the bible was wrote in a couple different languages, you need to go to the original text to find out the actual meaning if you truly want to know.

The Catholic church did put the bible together, and thank god they did. However corruption did occur, and scare tactics were put there. In the days of Martin Luther, they didn't even read the bible, it was only for a certain Sec of Priests. (Catholics) They said that normal people couldn't understand the bible. It was used for a control especially for money. Martin Luther pointed out some corruption, not all of it. And he started printing the bible. He was killed for exposing the Catholic church, as were others. So, it is very important to take a text if you question it, and find out what language it was wrote in, and in that language what the words actually mean.

The 7 days, part of the bible could mean something totally different in it's original text.

The key to Christianity is what happens after you die. Not what will happen here on earth. The bible clearly states, Christians are not to be of this earth. We are the outcasts. We are the ones that will be daunted for believing. God is not here to be a genie. It is for our after life, our hope is to receive the promise that was given by God, threw Christ.

frankly I feel sorry for people who believe that the Word of God insults their intelligence, because if you deny him, he will deny you! It says every knee shall bow. And when the day comes for you, He may say I never knew you!

[Frigidus]

What If? What if the Muslims re right and the one true God is Allah. You've probably piss off Allah by believing in God. CAn't live on "What if" otherwise you better start praying to every god/allah/buddah there is.

Yup. When it comes down to it over half the world is completely delusional no matter what the truth is (unless you feel that all the religions are correct that is).

[Heimdall]

For me, there is no doubt that the Christian God is the one true God. Jesus is, who He said He was.

And you're going to believe some crazy lunatic?

You seem to miss the Flame Wars Threads Also. EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. Jay exclaimed his yet you want to attack him. Why is that the ignorant must attack that which they can't comprehend?

The only one i'm flaming is Jesus and he ain't reading this so get over it. It's MY OPINION that Jesus was a lunatic.

So you saying that, you are insulting someone elses Religious figure because you reason he isn't here. How does that make it right? Also you admitted you were flaming so take it to the Flame Wars Page you Twit.

Are you joking???? We might as well move half the treads cause i saw a thread flaming, Hilary Clinton, Bush, etc...

So far, you're the only one who's insulted anyone who's reading by calling me a Twit.

Call it insulting, but i strongly believe thats who Jesus was. Go see the other thread if you want an explanation why.

[jay_a2j]

What If? What if the Muslims re right and the one true God is Allah. You've probably piss off Allah by believing in God. CAn't live on "What if" otherwise you better start praying to every god/allah/buddah there is.

Yup. When it comes down to it over half the world is completely delusional no matter what the truth is (unless you feel that all the religions are correct that is).

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." Now, He was right on everything He said....so I guess by saying this, He is saying the others are false.

[vtmarik]

frankly I feel sorry for people who believe that the Word of God insults their intelligence, because if you deny him, he will deny you! It says every knee shall bow. And when the day comes for you, He may say I never knew you!

That would be a lie, and lying is a sin. Therefore, God would never do that.

What If? What if the Muslims re right and the one true God is Allah. You've probably piss off Allah by believing in God. CAn't live on "What if" otherwise you better start praying to every god/allah/buddah there is.

Allah and God are the same God (especially since Allah is Arabic for "God"). If you'd read the Koran, you'd know that.

And also, Buddha is not a God, he was a man who sat under a tree and achieved enlightenment, then created a system of meditational practices that are designed to help others reach enlightenment.

[Heimdall]

He [Jesus] was right on everything He said....

1. You were not there to hear everything he said

2. What remains of "what he said" has been written and re-written by people who everything to gain by making others believe that Jesus was the son of god.

3. Despite this, there are plenty of examples in the bible prove Jesus wasn't always right.

Jesus says the gospel will be preached to all nations "and then shall the end come. Well according to Paul the gospel has been preached to everyone (Rom.10:18) yet the end hasn't come. 24:14

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

[jay_a2j]

He [Jesus] was right on everything He said....

1. You were not there to hear everything he said

2. What remains of "what he said" has been written and re-written by people who everything to gain by making others believe that Jesus was the son of god.

3. Despite this, there are plenty of examples in the bible prove Jesus wasn't always right.

Jesus says the gospel will be preached to all nations "and then shall the end come. Well according to Paul the gospel has been preached to everyone (Rom.10:18) yet the end hasn't come. 24:14

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

Out of context


Romans 10:11-20 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[a] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"[c]

16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"[d] 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world."[e] 19Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
"I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding."[f] 20And Isaiah boldly says,
"I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me."


Talking about the Israelites here.

[Beastly]

He [Jesus] was right on everything He said....

1. You were not there to hear everything he said

2. What remains of "what he said" has been written and re-written by people who everything to gain by making others believe that Jesus was the son of god.

3. Despite this, there are plenty of examples in the bible prove Jesus wasn't always right.

Jesus says the gospel will be preached to all nations "and then shall the end come. Well according to Paul the gospel has been preached to everyone (Rom.10:18) yet the end hasn't come. 24:14

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

1. Didn't have to be there, that's why we have the bible still.

2. Prove that it has been written and re-written and I will say you are right. It has been changed in language, but look at dictionaries for foreigners, the words do become a little different, because of the language barrier, but they still mean the same thing. And IF you want to find out what it really means, you have to go and find out the author the language, and then check out the original words and what they mean. Language interpretation doesn't mean the bible has been changed. Just put into other languages, Just like all the Foreign Dictionaries, the words don't change no matter how many times they are written in other languages. The bible has been carefully guarded by the Catholic Church, and other religions, They are not going to allow something so precious to be altered. Plus the books still exist. and they found more, the dead sea scrolls.

3. You show one example, and don't even show it... Lets show where Jesus says the gospel will be preached to all nations...

Matthew 24 >>
New American Standard Bible ©
Signs of Christ’s Return

1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”
3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 “You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 “But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 “At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 “Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 “Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13 “But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. 14 “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.


IF you take a understanding of the bible from one sentence, then you are not going to have the whole understanding.

you can read it and interpret it any way you want, but if you only have 2 sentences, how can you possibly say this means this, and that means that.

but Romans 10:18 is not the same meaning... here are 4 witness to what was meant in Rom. 10-18.

Ps 19:4; Rom 1:8; Col 1:6, 23; 1 Thess 1:8

[comic boy]

Isnt it Strange that despite being written by elders who lived in the same region, at the same time and were men of God, that Jesus or indeed any similar contemporary figure is not mentioned once in all of the Dead Sea Scrolls ?

[Guiscard]

But is tat something physically possible, or only mathematically possible?

It is present in the centre of a black hole, so yes it should be physically possible if we accept the current scientific consensus.