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b.k. barunt wrote:Snorri's like one of those fufu dogs who get all excited and dance around pissing on themself.
suggs wrote:scared off by all the pervs and wankers already? No? Then let me introduce myself, I'm Mr Pervy Wank.
as well all know this is by and large...i believe the word is bollocks.Norse wrote:Ha!
I've seen that stoooopid "capitalism pyramid" in loads of places, and it is a mockery of the truth.
The facts of the matter, is that white, working, middle class men are the slaves at the bottom, while limp-wristed, metero-sexual tsars of faggottry are the flustered, squeaky, bleating rulers....the white working man holding up the rest of the otherwise inefficient, lemon-tea-drinking, "never turned a penny in their life" islington brigade..
You lot owe me, big time.
Nevertheless...I have other plans for you.
i agree, people cooperating together has never occured in history on the societal level, and any notion that people working together could be a part of perhaps a complex notion of human nature, instead of a simplistic view of black and white, is frankly dangerous. Such notions need to be erased from conciouness, so that we can better use a system that on a fundamental level, does not concern itself with public good.Napoleon Ier wrote:Socialism is a nonsensical, fundamentally evil system contrary to human nature, which simply was an infantile response to a flawed capitalo-feusalist system in the 19th (20th for Russia), nothing but a risible product of its time with populistic appeal. And yes, Socialism is a variant of communism, which today is watered down but still dangerous.
Oh?Napoleon Ier wrote:Socialism is a nonsensical, fundamentally evil system contrary to human nature, which simply was an infantile response to a flawed capitalo-feusalist system in the 19th (20th for Russia), nothing but a risible product of its time with populistic appeal. And yes, Socialism is a variant of communism, which today is watered down but still dangerous.
Almost every aspect of that statement is as flawed Nap... hehe but i bet you felt bloody good after you wrote it!Napoleon Ier wrote:Socialism is a nonsensical, fundamentally evil system contrary to human nature, which simply was an infantile response to a flawed capitalo-feusalist system in the 19th (20th for Russia), nothing but a risible product of its time with populistic appeal. And yes, Socialism is a variant of communism, which today is watered down but still dangerous.
Not originally, but the Russians managed to re-invent it yes.btownmeggy wrote:Oh, socialism was invented in Russia?Napoleon Ier wrote:Socialism is a nonsensical, fundamentally evil system contrary to human nature, which simply was an infantile response to a flawed capitalo-feusalist system in the 19th (20th for Russia), nothing but a risible product of its time with populistic appeal. And yes, Socialism is a variant of communism, which today is watered down but still dangerous.
care to expound?jiminski wrote:Almost every aspect of that statement is as flawed Nap... hehe but i bet you felt bloody good after you wrote it!Napoleon Ier wrote:Socialism is a nonsensical, fundamentally evil system contrary to human nature, which simply was an infantile response to a flawed capitalo-feusalist system in the 19th (20th for Russia), nothing but a risible product of its time with populistic appeal. And yes, Socialism is a variant of communism, which today is watered down but still dangerous.
Tell me how your angels get down like that? Charlie how your angels get down like that?Norse wrote:Question.
Wayne wrote:Wow, with a voice like that Dancing Mustard must get all the babes!
Garth wrote:Yeah, I bet he's totally studly and buff.
While you were addressing norse, I would just like to give my opinion on this. First of all - yes. Any system has it's faults and after enough scrutiny it has some flaws.got tonkaed wrote:I mean seriously though norse, even though you obviously arent a huge fan of this whole idea that you could make a better society by empowering people....you dont think there maybe are some flaws with a free market concept on a purely philosophical level.
Most systems tend to break down under enough scrutiny on some level.
I want it! I want it!CoffeeCream wrote:Coming soon - universal health care whether you want it or not.
Alright fair enough. But why should I be forced to have it? Even if you don't agree with me that paying for it out of your own pocket or paying for your own private insurance is a good thing, isn't that my right to take care of my health my own way?btownmeggy wrote:I want it! I want it!CoffeeCream wrote:Coming soon - universal health care whether you want it or not.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36481
Well i suppose i would first counter that every system pits people against one another. Certainly to use a contemporary example, people have very strong feelings against immigration for an economic reason, that essentially pits them against someone else, be it rational or not. Likewise, i think if we are honest, we can fairly say, our society does not serve everyone equally. Even with the best of intentions, there are certain advantages that being born into some portions of society have. Admittedly yes, solutions often are going to come or at least be involved with higher taxation. Albeit a different issue, but i think theres some simplistic sense behind the idea, that if you do want social change, someone is going to have to pay for it. Although i may agree to an extent on the nature of social security, i think the fact that it was there in many ways was part of an assurance that led to some very productive generations in the US. Social programs are difficult to analyze because they do tend to hit so many different groups different ways. Does this mean we should forego them, i should think not.My own problem with socialism is that it divides people into groups and then pits them against each other. Usually this is done by claiming one group is a victim of something terrible - racism, bigotry, chauvinism, etc. The government will claim that they are the only ones that can protect these victims and then march in with their solutions. Usually these solutions involve higher taxation. Even when the government does manage to construct a temporary solution, the long-term consequence is even worse. An example of this would be our social security system. It was only meant to provide partial help for the aging and has now been redefined as an entitlement.
Ill admit there are certainly some areas of concern with the proposed healthcare plans that we have as of right now. But to be honest, we must admit there is an area that needs to be fixed. Tens of millions of people in our country right now simply do not have access to healthcare. In a society as wealthy as ours, that should be unacceptable. In so many ways economic success over the long term is dependent on things like education and health....which are things that we can help to improve. The fact that we dont do such things, and then are surprised when people struggle to move up the ladder so to speak, is rather distressing. Although yes, we still need to find the solution that will allow the best healthcare possible, i struggle to understand why we feel the free market will come up with these solutions, when clearly thus far it has not.Coming soon - universal health care whether you want it or not. The uninsured are going to be viewed as victims that need to be protected. Just wait until that day happens. The government will start demanding you eat healthier foods and exercise more in order for them to cut costs. Yeah, we pay a lot of health care in this country, but we also are living longer as a result.
This may very well be true. However, i think much of recent history teases out the notion that the free market, left to primarily its own devices, does not accomplish these things on their own either. If we choose not to do these things i suppose that is one thing, but if we are trying to promote change for the social embetterment of our population, it might be fair to suggest changes have to in some part come from government mediation. They frequently have throughout history, even if they havent always been of optimal effciency or lowest cost.My point is that government can not meet the expectations of whatever "service" they say they will provide to the masses, no matter how well intentioned.
a) this is likely necessary yes.Napoleon Ier wrote:
The problems are that
a. Due to its expensive nature taxes must be raised to fund the insurance of the less affluent.
b. This entrains a raise of taxes, a negative force on the economy
c. Automatically problems arise as people have no motive to not behave like hypochondriacs
d. (and this vital) Politicians have only gone to extremes, no health care and universal
Solution-Keyhole Surgery (npi), minimize interference to the specific problem
1. Raise a small tax for emergencies
2. Allow people system by which they can put away a percentage of their paycheck into a high interest account which can build up cumulatively, and serve as their own health insurance
That way, people are able to decide what they need or their health selectively, using their own cash, not squandering other peoples, whilst emergencies are covered.
Naponleon Ier wrote:2. Allow people system by which they can put away a percentage of their paycheck into a high interest account which can build up cumulatively, and serve as their own health insurance
That way, people are able to decide what they need or their health selectively, using their own cash, not squandering other peoples, whilst emergencies are covered.
It also does not help young people, including children, students, and young workers.got tonkaed wrote: 2) while benefiting the middle class, this option to save out of your check in no way helps the 40-50 million americans who are squeaking by as it is and are likely to not be able to pay for healthcare. Since they are maintaing on a check to check basis, you really think they are going to be able to start putting money aside into a different fund? Clearly this type of solution does not understand the nature of the problem of national healthcare.
i guess it poses the question....how is this account any different than the currently proposed method which is accused of forcing people to get healthcare. If you in theory cannot recieve quality healthcare if you do not or cannot properly fund this account, how does that put you in any different straits than it does now.Napoleon Ier wrote:It isnt flawless, however, I believe you'll find the solution is one of the best. I cant find the exact reference, but an excellent economist Tim Harford elaborated on this keyhole theory, Ill try and find it. I think you'll find though that healthcare at the moment costs a lot more than it should, and that this works out reasonably well : people can use their own money to chosse what they want as treatment. Sure, there's plenty of money that has to go for emergencies, but you can force them to contribute at the point they chose to undergo expensive, extensive care.
ah but this sentiment forces me to wonder who benefits. As it stands, in many ways balance and minimial intervention does not seem to be doing much of the population a great bit of good. Certainly the current status quo allows an opperutnity for growth, but that growth does not reach everyone.Napoleon Ier wrote:It is a question of balance and minimal intervention, though I can but agree with your last post.
Ya know DM...I was waiting for someone to ask me that....no one seems to be able to read between the lines these days.Dancing Mustard wrote:Tell me how your angels get down like that? Charlie how your angels get down like that?Norse wrote:Question.
b.k. barunt wrote:Snorri's like one of those fufu dogs who get all excited and dance around pissing on themself.
suggs wrote:scared off by all the pervs and wankers already? No? Then let me introduce myself, I'm Mr Pervy Wank.
got tonkaed wrote:ah but this sentiment forces me to wonder who benefits. As it stands, in many ways balance and minimial intervention does not seem to be doing much of the population a great bit of good. Certainly the current status quo allows an opperutnity for growth, but that growth does not reach everyone.Napoleon Ier wrote:It is a question of balance and minimal intervention, though I can but agree with your last post.
Very rarely does the status quo do positive things in the arena of social problems.
Easy meggy....save it for the PM's sweatheart.btownmeggy wrote: I want it! I want it!
b.k. barunt wrote:Snorri's like one of those fufu dogs who get all excited and dance around pissing on themself.
suggs wrote:scared off by all the pervs and wankers already? No? Then let me introduce myself, I'm Mr Pervy Wank.