Jesus Freaks...why do you believe?

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:00 am

So you want to change the death penalty to make it an old-school execution where theres a huge chance of survival? I don't think your republican counterparts would like that.

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:05 am

unriggable wrote:So you want to change the death penalty to make it an old-school execution where theres a huge chance of survival? I don't think your republican counterparts would like that.

Not to mention just forgetting about the option to appeal or actually recording everythign duly and making sure the government doesn't turn into a totalitarian regime which executes people it doesn't like.

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:05 am

MelonanadeMaster wrote: How much does a bullet cost?

I didn't think you were such a massive idiot.

MelonanadeMaster · Post by **MelonanadeMaster** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:40 am

Snorri1234 wrote:
MelonanadeMaster wrote: How much does a bullet cost?
I didn't think you were such a massive idiot.

In turn I didn't think you were such an idiot, by missing the point.

MelonanadeMaster · Post by **MelonanadeMaster** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:41 am

unriggable wrote:So you want to change the death penalty to make it an old-school execution where theres a huge chance of survival? I don't think your republican counterparts would like that.

I never remember saying a single word about my personal opinion being heavy on the death penalty.

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:47 am

MelonanadeMaster wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
MelonanadeMaster wrote: How much does a bullet cost?
I didn't think you were such a massive idiot.
In turn I didn't think you were such an idiot, by missing the point.

What point? A fool-proof and fair way of having the death penalty means it just costs more than life in prison. Simple as that.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:48 am

MelonanadeMaster wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
MelonanadeMaster wrote: How much does a bullet cost?
I didn't think you were such a massive idiot.
In turn I didn't think you were such an idiot, by missing the point.

FYI It's not the execution that costs so much its the appeals, the prosecution, etc. which make the life sentence roughly $100,000 cheaper per criminal than the execution.

comic boy · Post by **comic boy** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:25 pm

MR. Nate wrote:
comic boy wrote:The heart is rarely a better judge than the head, emotion is more interesting than logic but often flatters to decieve. One may believe they are talking to God but perhaps they are talking to themselves, there are no certainties just probabilities.
So when someone dies, you just stoically accept the death and move on, because emotions are just interesting, not practical? You don't tell you wife/gf you love her because clearly, it is only a logical/practical relationship? And your parents? Clearly you wouldn't do anything for them. They did a bunch for you, but in the cold light of logic, that's a net gain for you, sorry to them. Their contributions are no longer necessary, it doesn't matter, your not emotionally involved.

Either you don't practice what you have stated here (which makes me wonder if you believe it) or you're kind of a jerk.

Im afraid only a jerk would draw those conclusions from what I wrote, grow up please !

Napoleon Ier · Post by **Napoleon Ier** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:17 pm

Montesquieu would say in fact you are unable to acquire certain knowledge because man is a being governed simply by emotions which wouldobscure any perception of simple truth he may have.

[/irrelevant comment]

MelonanadeMaster · Post by **MelonanadeMaster** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:56 pm

unriggable wrote:
MelonanadeMaster wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
MelonanadeMaster wrote: How much does a bullet cost?
I didn't think you were such a massive idiot.
In turn I didn't think you were such an idiot, by missing the point.
FYI It's not the execution that costs so much its the appeals, the prosecution, etc. which make the life sentence roughly $100,000 cheaper per criminal than the execution.

My response to you already covered that.

l3eater · Post by **l3eater** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:35 pm

Napoleon Ier wrote:Montesquieu would say in fact you are unable to acquire certain knowledge because man is a being governed simply by emotions which wouldobscure any perception of simple truth he may have.

[/irrelevant comment]

Montesquieu, is like any other human being, he looks at thing in his/hers point of view, meaning that he only posted in his own point of view and opinion.

While man is governed by Emotions, hes also governed under logic and basic principles. Man is also (in cases) governed by Faith. Think about it, if a kid gets hurt and hates that person who hurt him, he might think of revenge, which is Emotions, he might also be governed by Logic in which he'll forget or push away the revenge thoughts, and in cases he'll be governed by Faith, by think of what God who do?, Who he accept that i chose this path instead of that?

Knowledge can be acquire BUT, some of it cannot. Some can only be acquired after died, of near-death experiences, But in cases of that it rarely happens. Example, if a kid wants to know how dinosaurs died, he'd check the library, or the Internet. When he finds a Book or Article, it might be written by some scientist who is, say an expert in Dinosaurs, But the Scientist would only have proof how they died by computer simulations and fossils, they never have been of will be known of how they died, they only guess.

PS: if you understand this, then im surprised

Napoleon Ier · Post by **Napoleon Ier** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:47 pm

Charles de Secondat, baron de Montesquieu certainly did not "post" on any forum

I also don't believe in this aspect of his philosophy, but his treatise on government in "L'Esprit des Lois" is well worth the read. He was a major inspiration on your founding fathers and their constitution, I'm surprised you hadn't heard of him.
Montesquieu's point I believe is more thatman cannot attain a great and fundamental realisation of metaphysical truths in fullness due to an emotionally, instinct governed nature.

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:10 am

l3ater just made himself look like a fool and then, to top it off, he got pwned. Beautiful.

MR. Nate · Post by **MR. Nate** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:36 am

comic boy wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:
comic boy wrote:The heart is rarely a better judge than the head, emotion is more interesting than logic but often flatters to decieve. One may believe they are talking to God but perhaps they are talking to themselves, there are no certainties just probabilities.
So when someone dies, you just stoically accept the death and move on, because emotions are just interesting, not practical? You don't tell you wife/gf you love her because clearly, it is only a logical/practical relationship? And your parents? Clearly you wouldn't do anything for them. They did a bunch for you, but in the cold light of logic, that's a net gain for you, sorry to them. Their contributions are no longer necessary, it doesn't matter, your not emotionally involved.

Either you don't practice what you have stated here (which makes me wonder if you believe it) or you're kind of a jerk.
Im afraid only a jerk would draw those conclusions from what I wrote, grow up please !

I'd like to point out that of the two choices I offered, it's clearly the former, as your response seems to be based in anger. If you responded with pure logic, you would have addressed the points and ignored the insult. By ignoring the points and addressing the insults, you have demonstrated that you fail to live by your own maxim.

Beastly · Post by **Beastly** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:42 am

Many posters are experts on why Christians believe and at the same time are experts on not being able to disprove God.

Why does this thread get away with being hijacked by unbelievers? hmmm...

IF you don't believe you cannot understand why anybody does. Go study the bible and then prove that it is wrong.

Why do you have such anger at believers. Why are you so into stating that God does not exist, but you have no proof?

I mean who shall I believe. In a bible that is still going strong, and Is trustworthy, or a unbeliever who can't show me any evidence at all or why I shouldn't believe. HMMMM I think I will choose to believe in God, instead a person who has nothing but a possibility of living for 100 years.

PinkyAndTheBrain · Post by **PinkyAndTheBrain** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:49 am

MR. Nate wrote:
comic boy wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:
comic boy wrote:The heart is rarely a better judge than the head, emotion is more interesting than logic but often flatters to decieve. One may believe they are talking to God but perhaps they are talking to themselves, there are no certainties just probabilities.
So when someone dies, you just stoically accept the death and move on, because emotions are just interesting, not practical? You don't tell you wife/gf you love her because clearly, it is only a logical/practical relationship? And your parents? Clearly you wouldn't do anything for them. They did a bunch for you, but in the cold light of logic, that's a net gain for you, sorry to them. Their contributions are no longer necessary, it doesn't matter, your not emotionally involved.

Either you don't practice what you have stated here (which makes me wonder if you believe it) or you're kind of a jerk.
Im afraid only a jerk would draw those conclusions from what I wrote, grow up please !
I'd like to point out that of the two choices I offered, it's clearly the former, as your response seems to be based in anger. If you responded with pure logic, you would have addressed the points and ignored the insult. By ignoring the points and addressing the insults, you have demonstrated that you fail to live by your own maxim.

Mr. Nate, you just admitted to insulting comic boy, and Beastly, you are a regular in Flame Wars.

My question is this: where in the Bible is insulting your fellow man condoned?

It seems to me that professed Christians who do this demonstrate that they fail to live by Jesus' adage to "love your neighbor as yourself".

Just my opinion.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:34 pm

Beastly wrote:If you don't believe you cannot understand why anybody does. Go study the bible and then prove that it is wrong.

You don't believe in Leprechauns. Why are you not spending a few months/years studying so you can really know them? If youwould only do this, perhaps you would understand & love them. Why do you hate them so by denying their existence?

Beastly wrote:Why do you have such anger at believers.

Typical christian knee-jerk response. Not one atheist is angry here...trust me.

Beastly wrote:Why are you so into stating that God does not exist, but you have no proof?

Why are you so into worshiping invisible supernatural creatures, but you have no proof?

Beastly wrote:I mean who shall I believe. In a bible that is still going strong, and Is trustworthy, or a unbeliever who can't show me any evidence at all or why I shouldn't believe.

There are many religious texts that are older than your bible. Why do you not worship them? After all they are even older and "still going strong"...

Beastly wrote:HMMMM I think I will choose to believe in God, instead a person who has nothing but a possibility of living for 100 years.

You choose to believe in legend & lore because you can't fathom the finality of reality. It has been going on since men walked the earth...only the gods & names have changed, but the delusion has always been here.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:38 pm

MelonanadeMaster wrote:
unriggable wrote:FYI It's not the execution that costs so much its the appeals, the prosecution, etc. which make the life sentence roughly $100,000 cheaper per criminal than the execution.
My response to you already covered that.

Avoiding the point when backed into a corner, eh? Sure...just brush it off like Xtratabasco.

(TIP: He always said "go back and re-read" when given a good smack-down. You should try it.)

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:40 pm

Backglass wrote:
Beastly wrote:Why do you have such anger at believers.
Typical christian knee-jerk response. Not one atheist is angry here...trust me.

I am! RAWR!

MR. Nate · Post by **MR. Nate** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:36 pm

PinkyAndTheBrain wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:
comic boy wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:
comic boy wrote:The heart is rarely a better judge than the head, emotion is more interesting than logic but often flatters to decieve. One may believe they are talking to God but perhaps they are talking to themselves, there are no certainties just probabilities.
So when someone dies, you just stoically accept the death and move on, because emotions are just interesting, not practical? You don't tell you wife/gf you love her because clearly, it is only a logical/practical relationship? And your parents? Clearly you wouldn't do anything for them. They did a bunch for you, but in the cold light of logic, that's a net gain for you, sorry to them. Their contributions are no longer necessary, it doesn't matter, your not emotionally involved.

Either you don't practice what you have stated here (which makes me wonder if you believe it) or you're kind of a jerk.
Im afraid only a jerk would draw those conclusions from what I wrote, grow up please !
I'd like to point out that of the two choices I offered, it's clearly the former, as your response seems to be based in anger. If you responded with pure logic, you would have addressed the points and ignored the insult. By ignoring the points and addressing the insults, you have demonstrated that you fail to live by your own maxim.

Mr. Nate, you just admitted to insulting comic boy, and Beastly, you are a regular in Flame Wars.

My question is this: where in the Bible is insulting your fellow man condoned?

It seems to me that professed Christians who do this demonstrate that they fail to live by Jesus' adage to "love your neighbor as yourself".

Just my opinion.

In my defense, I did say it conditionally. I don't think comic boy is a jerk, I don't think he's the type of person that would use people simply for what they can do for him - using pure logic. I have a feeling that he, like most people, loves some people unconditionally. I was trying to point out to him that he doesn't live by pure logic, he uses and even values his emotions.

However, I will freely admit that what he said is true - I'm a jerk. I tend to not consider the feelings of others when I write, and it is certainly an un-Christlike display. You know, disobeying Philippians 2 and all. I apologize to anyone I've hurt, starting with comic boy, and including anyone in the Map Foundry.

MelonanadeMaster · Post by **MelonanadeMaster** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:45 pm

Backglass wrote:
MelonanadeMaster wrote:
unriggable wrote:FYI It's not the execution that costs so much its the appeals, the prosecution, etc. which make the life sentence roughly $100,000 cheaper per criminal than the execution.
My response to you already covered that.
Avoiding the point when backed into a corner, eh? Sure...just brush it off like Xtratabasco.

(TIP: He always said "go back and re-read" when given a good smack-down. You should try it.)

I replied to him, and I replied to someone else, he chose to reply to my post to someone else.

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:03 pm

MelonanadeMaster wrote:
Backglass wrote:
MelonanadeMaster wrote:
unriggable wrote:FYI It's not the execution that costs so much its the appeals, the prosecution, etc. which make the life sentence roughly $100,000 cheaper per criminal than the execution.
My response to you already covered that.
Avoiding the point when backed into a corner, eh? Sure...just brush it off like Xtratabasco.

(TIP: He always said "go back and re-read" when given a good smack-down. You should try it.)
I replied to him, and I replied to someone else, he chose to reply to my post to someone else.

Nah you acted like you didn't have the slightest clue about the deathpenalty as some off-handed comment about those who support it aren't doing it for emotional reasons.
And when we called you on it, you just acted like you didn't actually believe it was rational.

daddy1gringo · Post by **daddy1gringo** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:08 pm

comic boy wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:
comic boy wrote:The heart is rarely a better judge than the head, emotion is more interesting than logic but often flatters to decieve. One may believe they are talking to God but perhaps they are talking to themselves, there are no certainties just probabilities.
So when someone dies, you just stoically accept the death and move on, because emotions are just interesting, not practical? You don't tell you wife/gf you love her because clearly, it is only a logical/practical relationship? And your parents? Clearly you wouldn't do anything for them. They did a bunch for you, but in the cold light of logic, that's a net gain for you, sorry to them. Their contributions are no longer necessary, it doesn't matter, your not emotionally involved.

Either you don't practice what you have stated here (which makes me wonder if you believe it) or you're kind of a jerk.
Im afraid only a jerk would draw those conclusions from what I wrote, grow up please !

Please, please, you misunderstand. Nate is not calling you a jerk. The assumption here is that you do not behave in this heartless and jerk-ish manner toward your loved ones, which, he is arguing, contradicts what you said.

It was "Either...,or..." It only says you are a jerk if YOU say you treat your loved ones as he described. I'm sure Nate assumes, as I do, that you do not.

Neoteny · Post by **Neoteny** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:04 pm

Beastly wrote:Many posters are experts on why Christians believe and at the same time are experts on not being able to disprove God.

Why does this thread get away with being hijacked by unbelievers? hmmm...

IF you don't believe you cannot understand why anybody does. Go study the bible and then prove that it is wrong.

Why do you have such anger at believers. Why are you so into stating that God does not exist, but you have no proof?

I mean who shall I believe. In a bible that is still going strong, and Is trustworthy, or a unbeliever who can't show me any evidence at all or why I shouldn't believe. HMMMM I think I will choose to believe in God, instead a person who has nothing but a possibility of living for 100 years.

What is often construed as anger is usually (in my case) passion. It bothers me to no end knowing (just like you know the Bible is right) that I know the truth, and none of you can see it. However, I don't have to study the Bible, because the basic premise it is based on goes against everything I stand for. Additionally, much of it's historicity has been "proven wrong" and all religious people do is assert that those parts are metaphorical, so it's a waste of time to try to do that anymore. Plus, the Bible doesn't give any evidence for god, it just asserts that god is there. Why are you so into stating that god exists, but you have no proof? Who shall I believe: my own logic, or a book written by other people whose logic did not have all the available resources mine does, or someone who relies on ancient people to do her thinking for her?

The Koran is still going strong, and is trustworthy (whatever that means); why not believe in that?

Conclusion: I trust my mind more than I trust yours, and I suggest you trust your mind more than you trust the minds of the Bible authors.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:05 pm

Faith, Neoteny. The only answer you'll ever get.