What is Obama's Faith?

[AAFitz]

How can anyone know anyone's faith, let alone a Politicians. Faith is ones belief, and no one could ever truly know that, so what they outwardly pretend to practice, which in many ways is a social function, is practically irrelevant anyways.

The fact that a thread like this gets made, solidifies this 100%.

What I think is priceless, is that you chastise the same person for offering people with no insurance a possible chance to live, Parents a chance to care for their young, and many other programs that one could argue were divinely inspired, and then have the audacity to question whether he may or may have Christian beliefs, despite the fact that he professes to being Christian, goes to Christian Church, and possibly, done more for Gods Children in the USA, than any other man in recent history.

Now, if you questioned whether George Bush actually believed in Christ, now that, id understand even more since you'd be judging his actions, more than his outward practices, which again, are just a social construct, and in any real way, completely meaningless.

Whos beliefs are more Christian; one who goes to church every Sunday to appease other people, or one who fully believes and accomplishes more by not going through the ritualistic routine.

The answer to this is the same answer to your ridiculous question: There is absolutely no way to possibly know.

[AAFitz]

(4) This is the most important one for me. There are a whole host of other items upon which the president can be critiqued other than some made up discussion about his religion. Can we please, please, please concentrate on those instead of what religion the president is (or, for that matter, where his birth certificate is)?

No. People have absolutely stopped caring, because they either truly know he will cost them money, or have been completely fooled into thinking he will. They will stop at nothing to discredit him, and while this has been true of possibly all candidates to some degree in the past, this one very much seems extra fueled by race, and anyone questioning that, is at best naive, but more likely, just plain stupid.

[thegreekdog]

(4) This is the most important one for me. There are a whole host of other items upon which the president can be critiqued other than some made up discussion about his religion. Can we please, please, please concentrate on those instead of what religion the president is (or, for that matter, where his birth certificate is)?

No. People have absolutely stopped caring, because they either truly know he will cost them money, or have been completely fooled into thinking he will. They will stop at nothing to discredit him, and while this has been true of possibly all candidates to some degree in the past, this one very much seems extra fueled by race, and anyone questioning that, is at best naive, but more likely, just plain stupid.

I think it's easier for some conservatives to garner support by focusing on things like religion and race, rather than focusing on issues that actually affect peoples' lives. I generally agree with your take.

And, to be bipartisan about this, it's easier for some liberals to garner support by focusing on things like race and "your grandma is going to die" type things.

I honestly just want to have high level discussions about issues, rather than having multiple discussions in half the threads about whether the president is Muslim or hates white people or whether Republicans hate black people and want a Christian theocracy.

[Phatscotty]

Then your issue with Obama having muslim relatives is moot. You just defeated your own argument.

If one is born a Muslim, one's father is a Muslim, and then one's step-father is a Muslim, and one is raised and lives in a Muslim country and goes to a Muslim school and keeps one's Muslim name, the only excuse for people who might suspect he is a Muslim is because they are Islamophobic and racist.

"But the elitist Ivy League lawyer with political ambitions said........"

How is the religion of a baby who's parents have different religions determined? Do they come out with a birthmark shaped into a symbol of their religion? Does a team of experts analyse their howls(babies who are silent at birth are obvi atheists)?

Well, they did not name him David.....

[Phatscotty]

Then your issue with Obama having muslim relatives is moot. You just defeated your own argument.

If one is born a Muslim, one's father is a Muslim, and then one's step-father is a Muslim, and one is raised and lives in a Muslim country and goes to a Muslim school and keeps one's Muslim name, the only excuse for people who might suspect he is a Muslim is because they are Islamophobic and racist.

"But the elitist Ivy League lawyer with political ambitions said........"

The problem with this argument is manifold.

(1) No one should really care about the president's religion generally. However, I can understand how some people feel more comfortable having a leader who is religious, so that's not really concerning to me.

(2) No one should really care about whether the president is Muslim or not (or any other religion or not). This smacks of the 1960s when people were a-scared of JFK and the Catholic Church running his presidency. Ironically (or maybe not), the same people who were scared of JFK and Catholicism tend to be like the people who are scared of Obama and his religion, which, by the way, is not Islam.

(3) The president has said on numerous occasions that he is Christian. The president used to attend and still attends Christian services. In fact, the Republicans made a big stink about his attendance at Christian services where the pastor talked about racial issues. So I'm not sure why this is still a relevant issue since the same people who are accusing him of being a Muslim are the same people accusing him of being a racist because he attended Christian services in the past. It's weird.

(4) This is the most important one for me. There are a whole host of other items upon which the president can be critiqued other than some made up discussion about his religion. Can we please, please, please concentrate on those instead of what religion the president is (or, for that matter, where his birth certificate is)?

I understand all that and only take a few small issues, but overall, my statement is a response to people who think it's crazy or stupid that people have and always will think Obama is a Muslim. He has the name Hussein. That is enough for a chunk of people who get the impression just based on the name.

Generally, religion does not matter. Some subsidiary questions and answers may matter a lot though. For example, someone can lie about their religion, which can be telling about their character or willingness to say and do anything to get elected. Also there is the matter of morals and values. If you want to know the values of a person, their religious background should function as a base for better understanding at least the overtones of said values.

Different religion...different values. So long as the values of a candidate is known, yeah I see your point it should not matter either people accept them or reject them or just vote for whoever talks the best.

As an aside, would your argument hold water if Obama came out later tonight and admitted that he worships Satan? Then would/should religion matter?

[thegreekdog]

As an aside, would your argument hold water if Obama came out later tonight and admitted that he worships Satan? Then would/should religion matter?

No. What's the worst he can do? Pee on the carpet?

[Baron Von PWN]

Then your issue with Obama having muslim relatives is moot. You just defeated your own argument.

If one is born a Muslim, one's father is a Muslim, and then one's step-father is a Muslim, and one is raised and lives in a Muslim country and goes to a Muslim school and keeps one's Muslim name, the only excuse for people who might suspect he is a Muslim is because they are Islamophobic and racist.

"But the elitist Ivy League lawyer with political ambitions said........"

How is the religion of a baby who's parents have different religions determined? Do they come out with a birthmark shaped into a symbol of their religion? Does a team of experts analyse their howls(babies who are silent at birth are obvi atheists)?

Well, they did not name him David.....

If he was named David, would that mean he was born a Christian? I was given a very Irish name at birth and yet neither I or my family is Catholic.

[Phatscotty]

Then your issue with Obama having muslim relatives is moot. You just defeated your own argument.

If one is born a Muslim, one's father is a Muslim, and then one's step-father is a Muslim, and one is raised and lives in a Muslim country and goes to a Muslim school and keeps one's Muslim name, the only excuse for people who might suspect he is a Muslim is because they are Islamophobic and racist.

"But the elitist Ivy League lawyer with political ambitions said........"

How is the religion of a baby who's parents have different religions determined? Do they come out with a birthmark shaped into a symbol of their religion? Does a team of experts analyse their howls(babies who are silent at birth are obvi atheists)?

Well, they did not name him David.....

If he was named David, would that mean he was born a Christian? I was given a very Irish name at birth and yet neither I or my family is Catholic.

mm hmmmm Jewish

If I wanted to use a Christian name as an example, I would have said Jesus.

[AAFitz]

"your grandma is going to die"

Thanks...it was a really long day, just got back, and that was good for a genuine smile and subdued laugh...

[Baron Von PWN]

mm hmmmm Jewish

If I wanted to use a Christian name as an example, I would have said Jesus.

Jewish whatever. My point stands, its idiotic to assume religion based on someone's name. Especially if that person has told you their religion.

"Hmm He's told me he's Christian, but his name is David. Must be a Jew"

[jammyjames]

Is being agnostic a religion? I always thought it was a religious stance?

[Phatscotty]

mm hmmmm Jewish

If I wanted to use a Christian name as an example, I would have said Jesus.

Jewish whatever. My point stands, its idiotic to assume religion based on someone's name. Especially if that person has told you their religion.

"Hmm He's told me he's Christian, but his name is David. Must be a Jew"

It's idiotic to ignore he was born a Muslim, as well as given a Muslim name in that birth.

I understand you are having trouble with the concept and it's not your fault. Your generation is the first one to have their exposure and introduction to God/religion ripped out of everything it does and trained to attack it. I am sure the results are going to be fabulous.

Look at all the great things since the 60's

[BigBallinStalin]

All those things since the 1960s SUCK! We need to go back to the 1950s. White guy universe FTW!

Women, get off those birth control pills!
No Internet for ANYONE!
Don't you dare be a Communist! Or EVEN SEEM SOCIALIST!!! >:(

What else was great before the 1960s?

[Baron Von PWN]

All those things since the 1960s SUCK! We need to go back to the 1950s. White guy universe FTW!

Women, get off those birth control pills!
No Internet for ANYONE!
Don't you dare be a Communist! Or EVEN SEEM SOCIALIST!!! >:(

What else was great before the 1960s?

We used to have Nazis! man that was awesome.

[Phatscotty]

All those things since the 1960s SUCK! We need to go back to the 1950s. White guy universe FTW!

Women, get off those birth control pills!
No Internet for ANYONE!
Don't you dare be a Communist! Or EVEN SEEM SOCIALIST!!! >:(

What else was great before the 1960s?

Yeah! Back to a time when there weren't school shootings once a week and an Autism crisis. OMG can you believe there was even a time when we had silver in our money? and a dollar was a dollar? Back to a time when we produced something other than freedom ending deficits and we did not sell out our children's future so that we can continue to live profligately? When we weren't dependent on foreign oil dictators just to keep our economy running or rely on Communist countries to provide us our own lifeblood? Wake the F up.

Who cares what the year or the demographic looked like. Do you want to live in a place where your children can grow up safely and have opportunity or do you not?

btw, we can be a free people AND have birth control and internetz.

[Baron Von PWN]

mm hmmmm Jewish

If I wanted to use a Christian name as an example, I would have said Jesus.

Jewish whatever. My point stands, its idiotic to assume religion based on someone's name. Especially if that person has told you their religion.

"Hmm He's told me he's Christian, but his name is David. Must be a Jew"

It's idiotic to ignore he was born a Muslim, as well as given a Muslim name in that birth.

I understand you are having trouble with the concept and it's not your fault. Your generation is the first one to have their exposure and introduction to God/religion ripped out of everything it does and trained to attack it. I am sure the results are going to be fabulous.

Look at all the great things since the 60's

Yes I am having trouble with the concept of being "born" into a religion. Especially when only one of the parents is of that faith and then not even a practising member, but a confessed atheist. Not to mention that person is born in a non-muslim country. Or that the baby in question is just being named after its father and not due to any religious conviction (Obama is actually Obama II).

When in all of that is the baby "born" Muslim? The simple answer is they aren't because it's ridiculous. It's not your fault though, you're crazy and its hard for you to process reality.

Question for you, how are you "born" into a religion? Is it automatic? Random chance(Oh dear our baby's been born Hindu!)? Does a priest come and stamp the womb "this baby 100% certified Christian!" ?

Oh I must have missed all the "attack Religion" classes in school. How I managed that I will never know. Maybe I was asleep those classes! Or maybe that's what they were actually doing when they took all the kids to the church down the road on religious ocaisions! Sneaky that hidding the anti-religion training in religious outings!

[Baron Von PWN]

All those things since the 1960s SUCK! We need to go back to the 1950s. White guy universe FTW!

Women, get off those birth control pills!
No Internet for ANYONE!
Don't you dare be a Communist! Or EVEN SEEM SOCIALIST!!! >:(

What else was great before the 1960s?

Yeah! Back to a time when there weren't school shootings once a week and an Autism crisis. OMG can you believe there was even a time when we had silver in our money? and a dollar was a dollar? Back to a time when we produced something other than freedom ending deficits and we did not sell out our children's future so that we can continue to live profligately? When we weren't dependent on foreign oil dictators just to keep our economy running or rely on Communist countries to provide us our own lifeblood? Wake the F up.

Who cares what the year or the demographic looked like. Do you want to live in a place where your children can grow up safely and have opportunity or do you not?

btw, we can be a free people AND have birth control and internetz.

All that because religion has been "ripped out of our lives and we've been trained to attack it"

Oh dear, Scotty has gone full red-neck freak out mode on us. Calm down Scotty, here have this and take a few deep breaths you might hyperventilate.

[Phatscotty]

mm hmmmm Jewish

If I wanted to use a Christian name as an example, I would have said Jesus.

Jewish whatever. My point stands, its idiotic to assume religion based on someone's name. Especially if that person has told you their religion.

"Hmm He's told me he's Christian, but his name is David. Must be a Jew"

It's idiotic to ignore he was born a Muslim, as well as given a Muslim name in that birth.

I understand you are having trouble with the concept and it's not your fault. Your generation is the first one to have their exposure and introduction to God/religion ripped out of everything it does and trained to attack it. I am sure the results are going to be fabulous.

Look at all the great things since the 60's

Yes I am having trouble with the concept of being "born" into a religion. Especially when only one of the parents is of that faith and then not even a practising member, but a confessed atheist. Not to mention that person is born in a non-muslim country. Or that the baby in question is just being named after its father and not due to any religious conviction (Obama is actually Obama II).

When in all of that is the baby "born" Muslim? The simple answer is they aren't because it's ridiculous. It's not your fault though, you're crazy and its hard for you to process reality.

Question for you, how are you "born" into a religion? Is it automatic? Random chance(Oh dear our baby's been born Hindu!)? Does a priest come and stamp the womb "this baby 100% certified Christian!" ?

Oh I must have missed all the "attack Religion" classes in school. How I managed that I will never know. Maybe I was asleep those classes! Or maybe that's what they were actually doing when they took all the kids to the church down the road on religious ocaisions! Sneaky that hidding the anti-religion training in religious outings!

Obama's parents chose his religion for him. It's human and religious tradition. I understand you do not like tradition very much either, and that is okay too.

Are you really gonna sit here and pretend that babies choose their own religion? Like a baby chooses for itself to get baptized? When a baby is born, it is subject to the values of the parents. Throughout history, religion has been one of the values most parents pass on to their children, usually soon after birth. When people get old enough and see how the world is, they might change their mind and convert or give up religion altogether. Doesn't change how one was raised, and doesn't make someone crazy for pointing out the truth about how he was raised, or the point that how he was raised is going to play automatically into many people's head as "Muslim", right or wrong.

That will be 5$, and you can keep the crazy! parents don't choose their children's religion....hhahaha

[Baron Von PWN]

mm hmmmm Jewish

If I wanted to use a Christian name as an example, I would have said Jesus.

Jewish whatever. My point stands, its idiotic to assume religion based on someone's name. Especially if that person has told you their religion.

"Hmm He's told me he's Christian, but his name is David. Must be a Jew"

It's idiotic to ignore he was born a Muslim, as well as given a Muslim name in that birth.

I understand you are having trouble with the concept and it's not your fault. Your generation is the first one to have their exposure and introduction to God/religion ripped out of everything it does and trained to attack it. I am sure the results are going to be fabulous.

Look at all the great things since the 60's

Yes I am having trouble with the concept of being "born" into a religion. Especially when only one of the parents is of that faith and then not even a practising member, but a confessed atheist. Not to mention that person is born in a non-muslim country. Or that the baby in question is just being named after its father and not due to any religious conviction (Obama is actually Obama II).

When in all of that is the baby "born" Muslim? The simple answer is they aren't because it's ridiculous. It's not your fault though, you're crazy and its hard for you to process reality.

Question for you, how are you "born" into a religion? Is it automatic? Random chance(Oh dear our baby's been born Hindu!)? Does a priest come and stamp the womb "this baby 100% certified Christian!" ?

Oh I must have missed all the "attack Religion" classes in school. How I managed that I will never know. Maybe I was asleep those classes! Or maybe that's what they were actually doing when they took all the kids to the church down the road on religious ocaisions! Sneaky that hidding the anti-religion training in religious outings!

Obama's parents chose his religion for him. It's human and religious tradition. I understand you do not like tradition very much either, and that is okay too.

Are you really gonna sit here and pretend that babies choose their own religion? Like a baby chooses for itself to get baptized? When a baby is born, it is subject to the values of the parents. Throughout history, religion has been one of the values most parents pass on to their children, usually soon after birth.

That will be 5$, and you can keep the crazy! parents don't choose their children's religion....hhahaha

No I thought that's what you were saying, as its the only way Obama could be born muslim, considering neither of his parents were Muslim.

[Phatscotty]

What I have been saying from day 1 is just that it's understandable people think he is a Muslim, or even just has some association. I do not think he is a Muslim, never have.

I voted Black Liberation Theology (correct answer btw)

[Baron Von PWN]

What I have been saying from day 1 is just that it's understandable people think he is a Muslim, or even just has some association. I do not think he is a Muslim, never have.

I voted Black Liberation Theology (correct answer btw)

except for the part just now when you said he was born muslim...

[PLAYER57832]

Then your issue with Obama having muslim relatives is moot. You just defeated your own argument.

If one is born a Muslim, one's father is a Muslim, and then one's step-father is a Muslim, and one is raised and lives in a Muslim country and goes to a Muslim school and keeps one's Muslim name, the only excuse for people who might suspect he is a Muslim is because they are Islamophobic and racist.

To think that might be possible is perhaps reasonable. HOWEVER, when faced with the enormous evidence, beginning with the fact that the school was not, as you claim a "Muslim school", but a school with kids of many religions, to the more firm evidence of his having belonged to Christian churches throughout his life and his personal testament to being a Christian.. to ignore THAT evidence and hit on distorted information as if it were some kind of "higher truth", THAT, is indeed smacking of racism.

How is the religion of a baby who's parents have different religions determined? Do they come out with a birthmark shaped into a symbol of their religion? Does a team of experts analyse their howls(babies who are silent at birth are obvi atheists)?

Well, they did not name him David.....

If he was named David, would that mean he was born a Christian? I was given a very Irish name at birth and yet neither I or my family is Catholic.

mm hmmmm Jewish

If I wanted to use a Christian name as an example, I would have said Jesus.

No, aside from South Americans, most Christians consider using his hame for a real person to be near blasphemous if not outright blasphemy. (though we generally also understand this is not how it is seen in all cultures).

A "true Christian" name might be more like Mark, Peter, Paul.

But anyway... to claim that having an arabic middle name means he is Islamic is pretty idiotic.

[Phatscotty]

Then your issue with Obama having muslim relatives is moot. You just defeated your own argument.

If one is born a Muslim, one's father is a Muslim, and then one's step-father is a Muslim, and one is raised and lives in a Muslim country and goes to a Muslim school and keeps one's Muslim name, the only excuse for people who might suspect he is a Muslim is because they are Islamophobic and racist.

To think that might be possible is perhaps reasonable. HOWEVER, when faced with the enormous evidence, beginning with the fact that the school was not, as you claim a "Muslim school", but a school with kids of many religions, to the more firm evidence of his having belonged to Christian churches throughout his life and his personal testament to being a Christian.. to ignore THAT evidence and hit on distorted information as if it were some kind of "higher truth", THAT, is indeed smacking of racism.

How is the religion of a baby who's parents have different religions determined? Do they come out with a birthmark shaped into a symbol of their religion? Does a team of experts analyse their howls(babies who are silent at birth are obvi atheists)?

Well, they did not name him David.....

If he was named David, would that mean he was born a Christian? I was given a very Irish name at birth and yet neither I or my family is Catholic.

mm hmmmm Jewish

If I wanted to use a Christian name as an example, I would have said Jesus.

No, aside from South Americans, most Christians consider using his hame for a real person to be near blasphemous if not outright blasphemy. (though we generally also understand this is not how it is seen in all cultures).

A "true Christian" name might be more like Mark, Peter, Paul.

But anyway... to claim that having an arabic middle name means he is Islamic is pretty idiotic.

Yeah, because Arabs are not predominantly Muslims.

Does the fact that almost all Arabs are Muslim factor in here? Oh, right, that would be common sense, which is a nono. Forgot we have to pretend like we don't know anything.

[AAFitz]

Forgot we have to pretend like we don't know anything.

Well, youre doing a great job of pretending, Ill give you that.

Im convinced.

[Phatscotty]

Forgot we have to pretend like we don't know anything.

Well, youre doing a great job of pretending, Ill give you that.

Im convinced.

Okay, not to bring up everything you deleted out of my post or anything, but AAfitz, are you able to state or accept the statement that a person named Mohammed is 95% of the time is or was a Muslim, a person names Jesus 95% of the time is or was a Christian, and a person named Abraham 95% of the time is or was Jewish?

Everyone is unable to make the connection. Can AAfitz be the first?