XML Question - Killer Neutrals

[natty dread]

If you put a bonus on a single territory which is also a killer neutral, then do you get the bonus if you hold that territory, even though your troops get destroyed by the killer neutral?

I guess it depends on which comes first, killer N or troop bonus calculation?

[captainwalrus]

killer neutral comes first, I am 99% sure.

[the.killing.44]

killer neutral comes first, I am 99% sure.

Ja. No bonus.

[yeti_c]

It doesn't really matter - it's pretty immaterial.

C.

[natty dread]

What a shame. If it had been the other way around I could have thought use for the feature in a map I'm planning.

Oh well back to the imaginary drawingboard in my head.

[theBastard]

1, is possible to set how much turns can hold player Killer Neutral region, so when Neutral region became again Neutral?
2, and is possible to do that if player holds XY (castle) than Killer Neutrals does not became Neutral?

[the.killing.44]

No and no.

[theBastard]

thanks.

[theBastard]

1, could I set killer neutrals as starting positions? so at the start of game, during the first turn, players will have troops there and could attack regular regions and moving (advance) the troops? after the first round will killer neutrals became realy killer neutrals?

2, could I have in the map two-three types of killer neutrals? one with 1 army, second with 2 armies?

[MrBenn]

1 - I'm not too sure what would happen if a killer neutral were coded as a starting position, but I imagine that the territory would revert to neutral prior to any deployment/attacking as happens per usual.

2 - Yes, it is possible to have killer neutrals with different neutral values, but it is not currently possible to adjust the amount they revert to (ie a killer-neutral-2 will always revert to 2, whereas a killer-neutral-60 will always revert to 60).

[theBastard]

so, it maybe should be possible to code killer neutrats as starting positions. logicaly, player who conquered killer neutral holds it to the end of round/start of the new round. I do not know how codding works, but when killer neutrals will be starting positions game could "works" as they were conquered as during the game, I think...

[thenobodies80]

Yes it's possible, but it doesn't have so much sense.
Killer neutrals are the first thing listed in the game log, it means that is the first thing that happens when you start your turn.

e.g. : Game 2485245 , round 20

game log

2008-06-03 01:03:45 - Incrementing game to round 20
2008-06-03 01:32:28 - 11chrome lost SS-18 MISSLE LAUNCH to neutral player
2008-06-03 01:32:28 - 11chrome got bonus of 2 troops added to USSR Bunker 1
2008-06-03 01:32:28 - 11chrome got bonus of 2 troops added to USSR Bunker 2
2008-06-03 01:32:28 - 11chrome received 1 troops for holding 1 Uranium Processing Plant
2008-06-03 01:32:28 - 11chrome received 3 troops for 11 regions
2008-06-03 01:41:20 - 11chrome deployed 4 troops on Magadan
2008-06-03 01:41:24 - 11chrome assaulted USSR Launch Code from Magadan and conquered it from neutral player
2008-06-03 01:41:33 - 11chrome ended the turn and got spoils

Then, in an hypothetical map in the first round all the starting positions (always assigned to player except if there's a reminder) will revert to neutral immediately,. So why not to code them directly neutrals from the start?
The worst result (and the funniest ) is in an hypothetical conquest style map where each player starts with a single starting neutral killer position....the last player who plays his fisrt turn wins the game without having ever played.

[theBastard]

now I understand. and also know how to do quick game
thanks.

[TaCktiX]

The worst result (and the funniest ) is in an hypothetical conquest style map where each player starts with a single starting neutral killer position....the last player who plays his fisrt turn wins the game without having ever played.

That actually happened in a Battle Royale game of Arms Race. Literally, the last person to start his turn won the game. Due to a weird conflict with BR mechanics and the setup of Arms Race, everyone started with zero territories.

EDIT: This is the game, game log is priceless. Game 3960030

[yeti_c]

Actually - I remember considering making a map where this feature was used... basically the territory would be hidden by being off of the map - and it could bombard every territory on the map... so - you started off seeing the entire board - but once you press the Begin Turn button it died... this would be particuarly cool with FOW on...

C.

[Evil DIMwit]

Actually - I remember considering making a map where this feature was used... basically the territory would be hidden by being off of the map - and it could bombard every territory on the map... so - you started off seeing the entire board - but once you press the Begin Turn button it died... this would be particuarly cool with FOW on...

C.

That would be pretty awesome. It would also probably cause frustration with people who didn't read the directions.

[yeti_c]

Actually - I remember considering making a map where this feature was used... basically the territory would be hidden by being off of the map - and it could bombard every territory on the map... so - you started off seeing the entire board - but once you press the Begin Turn button it died... this would be particuarly cool with FOW on...

C.

That would be pretty awesome. It would also probably cause frustration with people who didn't read the directions.

Double agreement...

C.

[cairnswk]

yeti C....

in the xml tutorial you wrote, can you place a highlight/header in the first section where it mentions killer neutrals, because as it is now, you have to go searching through the text to find the reference (other features are highlighted)

and also,

can you clarify with an explanation (in the tutorial) as to whether killer neutrals revert a territory to neutral after a per player turn basis, or after a per game round basis.

That would be awesome if you could please

[natty dread]

I believe all killer neutrals revert to neutral if you hold them at the beginning of your turn.

[MrBenn]

yeti C....

in the xml tutorial you wrote, can you place a highlight/header in the first section where it mentions killer neutrals, because as it is now, you have to go searching through the text to find the reference (other features are highlighted)

and also,

can you clarify with an explanation (in the tutorial) as to whether killer neutrals revert a territory to neutral after a per player turn basis, or after a per game round basis.

That would be awesome if you could please

I've done that, and added in a heading for Autodeploy and Starting Neutrals. I've also updated the tutorial with the amended XML for objectives.

[cairnswk]

...
I've done that, and added in a heading for Autodeploy and Starting Neutrals. I've also updated the tutorial with the amended XML for objectives.

Thanks MrBenn

But the explanation it still confusing...sorry if i am dumb

Killer Neutrals

If you want you can make these neutrals come back after someone takes the territory. We call these killer neutrals, which revert to neutral at the beginning of the occupying players turn. To make Alberta a killer neutral so that it goes back to being 10 after someone takes it you just change the neutral tag like so:

"which revert to neutral at the beginning of the occupying players turn"
this means that if i take a killer neutral territory (AA in Das Schloß is becoming one in the new adjustments), and no-one else takes within the scope of the next round, then upon my next turn, it reverts to neutral.

However...if i take the territory and then someelse takes it from me, then it won't revert to neutral until the end of that player's turn.

Question: is there a situation where a killer neutral territory will revert to neutral at the start of the next game round?
Is that coded anywhere?

[TaCktiX]

Negative on that, ghostrider.

[MrBenn]

...
I've done that, and added in a heading for Autodeploy and Starting Neutrals. I've also updated the tutorial with the amended XML for objectives.

Thanks MrBenn

But the explanation it still confusing...sorry if i am dumb

Killer Neutrals

If you want you can make these neutrals come back after someone takes the territory. We call these killer neutrals, which revert to neutral at the beginning of the occupying players turn. To make Alberta a killer neutral so that it goes back to being 10 after someone takes it you just change the neutral tag like so:

"which revert to neutral at the beginning of the occupying players turn"
this means that if i take a killer neutral territory (AA in Das Schloß is becoming one in the new adjustments), and no-one else takes within the scope of the next round, then upon my next turn, it reverts to neutral.

However...if i take the territory and then someelse takes it from me, then it won't revert to neutral until the end of that player's turn.

Question: is there a situation where a killer neutral territory will revert to neutral at the start of the next game round?
Is that coded anywhere?

To answer the first part of your question, is that the territory will revert to neutral at the beginning of the turn of whoever is occupying it. If player A takes it, and nobody takes it from them, it will revert to neutral at the beginning of player A's next turn. If player B takes it from player A, then the same logic applies, and if nobody else take the territory it will return to neutral at the beginning of player B's turn.

The second part of your question is that no "events" currently take place at the end of a round - all of the game engine activity takes place when somebody clicks the "Begin Turn" button.

[MarshalNey]

The second part of your question is that no "events" currently take place at the end of a round - all of the game engine activity takes place when somebody clicks the "Begin Turn" button

Which can be a little unfortunate with regards to killer neutrals, especially when someone is a bit illogical and then deadbeats.

This happened in Das Schloss, for instance. An admittedly confused player attacked the entry point (a killer neutral level 2) and left something like 6 troops there. Naturally, the rest of us waited for the killer neutral to reduce that number down to 2. But, as luck would have it, that player missed his next turn, delaying everything for yet another round.

It's then that I realized that a "killer" neutral could actually take up to 4 turns to reset, even if nobody attacked it!

[Evil DIMwit]

So killer neutral calculation comes before bonuses. Does it come before victory conditions? Because if not, there's some gameplay potential there.