ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

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isaiah40
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ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by isaiah40 »

Today the federal government is literally everywhere. It has its nose in everything, and it has been that way for a long, long time.

In the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison warned us that if the federal government were to have the exclusive right to judge the extent of its own powers, its power would continue to grow – regardless of elections, the separation of powers, and other much-touted limits on power.

The principle behind these resolutions, that the power of federal government must be checked by state governments, has gained resurgence in recent years, and is growing more every day.

Fourteen states are now defying federal laws on marijuana. Nearly two dozen states have rendered the Bush-era Real ID act null and void by passing laws or resolutions refusing to comply with it. Two states have already passed laws to effectively nullify some federal gun laws or regulations within their borders and more than two dozen others are considering similar legislation. More than a dozen states are considering legislation to nullify or effectively ban any future national health care plan in their state. Other states are considering legislation to refuse sending their national guard troops to wars deemed unconstitutional by state governors. And still others are looking at laws to resist cap and trade legislation.

The principle behind such legislation is nullification. When a state ‘nullifies’ a federal law, it is proclaiming that the law in question is void and inoperative, or ‘non-effective,’ within the boundaries of that state; or, in other words, not a law as far as the state is concerned.

MORE THAN WORDS

But to simply declare a law null and void is not enough. Implied in any nullification legislation is enforcement of the state law. In the Virginia Resolution of 1798, James Madison wrote of the principle of interposition:

That this Assembly doth explicitly and peremptorily declare, that it views the powers of the federal government, as resulting from the compact, to which the states are parties; as limited by the plain sense and intention of the instrument constituting the compact; as no further valid that they are authorized by the grants enumerated in that compact; and that in case of a deliberate, palpable, and dangerous exercise of other powers, not granted by the said compact, the states who are parties thereto, have the right, and are in duty bound, to interpose for arresting the progress of the evil, and for maintaining within their respective limits, the authorities, rights and liberties appertaining to them.

In his famous speech during the war of 1812, Daniel Webster said:

“The operation of measures thus unconstitutional and illegal ought to be prevented by a resort to other measures which are both constitutional and legal. It will be the solemn duty of the State governments to protect their own authority over their own militia, and to interpose between their citizens and arbitrary power. These are among the objects for which the State governments exist”

Here Madison and Webster assert what is implied in nullification laws — that state governments not only have the right to resist unconstitutional federal acts, but that, in order to protect liberty, they are “duty bound to interpose” or stand between the federal government and the people of the state.

RESISTING FEDERAL INTRUSTION

The only way to restrain an out of control federal government is through the interposition of state authority to stand in defense of individual life and liberty. Those sound like nice words, but what does this mean precisely in application?

In order to restore usurped constitutional authority, a State must be prepared, at some point, to resist federal intrusion. In the American tradition, there is a long history of States doing just that. Georgia nullified the Supreme Court’s ruling in Chisholm vs. Georgia (1793); New England States nullified fugitive slave laws; and earlier New England townships nullified Jefferson’s embargo and the war of 1812 declared under Madison’s administration.

Jefferson said “he felt the foundations of the government shaken under my feet by the New England townships.” Wisconsin was nullifying what it declared to be usurpations by the Supreme Court into the 1850s. There was a time when the States kept the central government under control.

FOLLOW THE MONEY

When I talk to people about these principles – most agree, like Martin Luther King Jr. said in his famous “Letter from Birmingham jail,” that there is a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. But, they’ll often ask, even if states pass laws to nullify unjust and unconstitutional federal acts, the feds will still continue to tax us and punish our states financially for not complying – so what can we REALLY do?

One idea, which will take a great deal of courage on the part of the People and their state governments, is to establish what’s being called a “Federal Tax Escrow Account” or a “State Authority and Federal Tax Funds Act.”

Already introduced in Georgia (HB877), Oklahoma (HB2810), and Washington (HB2712), such laws would require that all federal taxes come first to the state’s Department of Revenue. A panel of legislators would assay the Constitutional appropriateness of the Federal Budget, and then forward to the federal government a percentage of the federal tax dollars that are delineated as legal and Constitutionally justified. The remainder of those dollars would be assigned to budgetary items that are currently funded through federal allocations and grants or returned to the people.

Will the federal government – and its courts – deem such laws constitutional? Unlikely, especially in light of the fact that as recently as 2005 the Supreme Court ruled that a person growing a plant on their own property, keeping it at home, and consuming it in their own home was somehow “interstate commerce.” Rulings such as these show that the courts have little, if any, respect for the rights of the people.

The Supreme Court, with only nine unelected judges, has become the most important policy making body in this country, and makes claim to be the final authority on interpreting the Constitution. Never in history have so many been ruled by so few.

The essential question, of course, will the people and their state governments have enough courage to push forward anyway? Only time will tell.
I think this article says it all!
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rockfist
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by rockfist »

I didn't read all that, but the answer to end excessive federal spending is simple. End the payroll tax.
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by comic boy »

Yes its obvious that the United States and the Rest of the World have not changed one bit since the 18th century , what applied then should apply now without question......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

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comic boy wrote:Yes its obvious that the United States and the Rest of the World have not changed one bit since the 18th century , what applied then should apply now without question......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
What does the changing face of the US and the world have to do with the US system of government and the non-intrusion of the federal government in our daily lives? What does the changing face of the US and the world have to do with taxes? Maybe you should read the OP instead of making snide remarks that don't make sense. Meh, who am I kidding...
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by Baron Von PWN »

Nice how they sneak in a jab at the supreme court at the end there, and then make the false claim they "rule" the USA. They don't introduce any legislation, they can only affect legislation which is challenged as unconstitutional. I also think the record of the supreme court has overall been a good one.
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

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Baron Von PWN wrote:Nice how they sneak in a jab at the supreme court at the end there, and then make the false claim they "rule" the USA. They don't introduce any legislation, they can only affect legislation which is challenged as unconstitutional. I also think the record of the supreme court has overall been a good one.
I agree. That being said, the US Supreme Court has had a history of reading things into the Constitution that aren't there.
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by Titanic »

comic boy wrote:Yes its obvious that the United States and the Rest of the World have not changed one bit since the 18th century , what applied then should apply now without question......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Indeed. I don't understand this position, you think you're country will run smoother and more competitively on the global scale if it is really 50 separate entities?
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by comic boy »

thegreekdog wrote:
comic boy wrote:Yes its obvious that the United States and the Rest of the World have not changed one bit since the 18th century , what applied then should apply now without question......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
What does the changing face of the US and the world have to do with the US system of government and the non-intrusion of the federal government in our daily lives? What does the changing face of the US and the world have to do with taxes? Maybe you should read the OP instead of making snide remarks that don't make sense. Meh, who am I kidding...
Dumb nuts, did you not notice that the OP was quoting sources and legislation from 200 years ago, perhaps you should read more carefully before making an arse of yourself :lol:
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comic boy
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by comic boy »

Titanic wrote:
comic boy wrote:Yes its obvious that the United States and the Rest of the World have not changed one bit since the 18th century , what applied then should apply now without question......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Indeed. I don't understand this position, you think you're country will run smoother and more competitively on the global scale if it is really 50 separate entities?
Precisely =D> =D> =D>
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by thegreekdog »

comic boy wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
comic boy wrote:Yes its obvious that the United States and the Rest of the World have not changed one bit since the 18th century , what applied then should apply now without question......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
What does the changing face of the US and the world have to do with the US system of government and the non-intrusion of the federal government in our daily lives? What does the changing face of the US and the world have to do with taxes? Maybe you should read the OP instead of making snide remarks that don't make sense. Meh, who am I kidding...
Dumb nuts, did you not notice that the OP was quoting sources and legislation from 200 years ago, perhaps you should read more carefully before making an arse of yourself :lol:
I think you meant "Numb nuts."

Anyway, again, why, specifically, are those sources and legislation inapplicable today? Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us all with something other than "It's been 200 years!" Perhaps you'd also like to enlighten us as to why the ideas of limited government don't work. No? You don't want to do that? I know it's hard for you to think sometimes; maybe if you really concentrate it will come to you. Or, you can just call me "dumb nuts" again. Whatever floats your boat.
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by thegreekdog »

Titanic wrote:
comic boy wrote:Yes its obvious that the United States and the Rest of the World have not changed one bit since the 18th century , what applied then should apply now without question......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Indeed. I don't understand this position, you think you're country will run smoother and more competitively on the global scale if it is really 50 separate entities?
No. Well, that's not what I'm saying. Again, not the point of the OP.

EDIT - The point of the OP is that in order to protect individual rights, it has become clear that the federal government is not the way to go. The federal government, lately at least, has infringed on personal privacy rights (President Bush) and now has and is trying to infringe on property rights. Therefore, in order to protect these individual rights, since we can no longer rely on the federal government, we must turn to state governments and use the types of laws that Washington, New Hampshire, and other states are proposing; namely, laws that nullify the effect of federal laws on residents of those states (whether they be laws restricting ownership of guns, laws requiring the purchase of healthcare, or laws requiring the payment of tax dollars to failing companies).

THAT is the point of the OP, not "oh noes, we have to have a Civil War" or "states rights!"
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by comic boy »

I wish I had the same insight as Dumb Nuts, he seems to know rather better than the OP what the original point of all these repetitive threads might be :D
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thegreekdog
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by thegreekdog »

comic boy wrote:I wish I had the same insight as Dumb Nuts, he seems to know rather better than the OP what the original point of all these repetitive threads might be :D
:cry:

You couldn't do it... sorry little buddy. Maybe next time.
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by Titanic »

thegreekdog wrote: EDIT - The point of the OP is that in order to protect individual rights, it has become clear that the federal government is not the way to go. The federal government, lately at least, has infringed on personal privacy rights (President Bush) and now has and is trying to infringe on property rights. Therefore, in order to protect these individual rights, since we can no longer rely on the federal government, we must turn to state governments and use the types of laws that Washington, New Hampshire, and other states are proposing; namely, laws that nullify the effect of federal laws on residents of those states (whether they be laws restricting ownership of guns, laws requiring the purchase of healthcare, or laws requiring the payment of tax dollars to failing companies).

THAT is the point of the OP, not "oh noes, we have to have a Civil War" or "states rights!"
The federal government does not remove civil liberties, legislators or executive orders do. Why not remove the ones actually creating and implementing the policies. You really if states had much more power that they won't be implementing more and more invasive laws?

You realise the most free nations on the Earth are pretty much all countries with a powerful state government, rather then giving over excessive powers to the different districts? The problem is not the government, it is the legislators and the electorate.
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by multilis »

"The federal government, lately at least, has infringed on personal privacy rights (President Bush)"

Do you think that if a terrorist attack succeeded in killing 100 thousand or more, that Obama would not "infringe" many times more to stop another attack? (A smart kid with a few million dollars and a dozen helpers could probably kill more than a million people easily using biological weapons. Hard to catch such a plot as infringes on privacy)

People would welcome a Hitler with open arms and give up their rights if the alternative "freedom" lacked security (they feared for their lives)... eg in Russia Putin is popular despite less "rights" because he brought stability. Hitler was voted dictorial powers by 90% of the people in a relatively "free/fair" election according to europe observers, including winning a majority in Jewish areas (they feared reprisals if they didn't).
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by Titanic »

multilis wrote:"The federal government, lately at least, has infringed on personal privacy rights (President Bush)"

Do you think that if a terrorist attack succeeded in killing 100 thousand or more, that Obama would not "infringe" many times more to stop another attack? (A smart kid with a few million dollars and a dozen helpers could probably kill more than a million people easily using biological weapons. Hard to catch such a plot as infringes on privacy)

People would welcome a Hitler with open arms and give up their rights if the alternative "freedom" lacked security (they feared for their lives)... eg in Russia Putin is popular despite less "rights" because he brought stability. Hitler was voted dictorial powers by 90% of the people in a relatively "free/fair" election according to europe observers, including winning a majority in Jewish areas (they feared reprisals if they didn't).
Um, what? All of the terrorist attacks in the developed world so far (9/11, London, Madrid, other failed ones) could all have been prevented through intelligence collaboration and action. I agree with only one change the UK government have bought about which is longer detention times before charging the suspect. Any other I think are an unnecessary erosion of civil liberties for no real purpose.
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by thegreekdog »

Titanic wrote:
thegreekdog wrote: EDIT - The point of the OP is that in order to protect individual rights, it has become clear that the federal government is not the way to go. The federal government, lately at least, has infringed on personal privacy rights (President Bush) and now has and is trying to infringe on property rights. Therefore, in order to protect these individual rights, since we can no longer rely on the federal government, we must turn to state governments and use the types of laws that Washington, New Hampshire, and other states are proposing; namely, laws that nullify the effect of federal laws on residents of those states (whether they be laws restricting ownership of guns, laws requiring the purchase of healthcare, or laws requiring the payment of tax dollars to failing companies).

THAT is the point of the OP, not "oh noes, we have to have a Civil War" or "states rights!"
The federal government does not remove civil liberties, legislators or executive orders do. Why not remove the ones actually creating and implementing the policies. You really if states had much more power that they won't be implementing more and more invasive laws?

You realise the most free nations on the Earth are pretty much all countries with a powerful state government, rather then giving over excessive powers to the different districts? The problem is not the government, it is the legislators and the electorate.
I would say the problem lies with the federal government legislators (if we're going to go in that direction)... so I agree on that point.

However, I think that states could, for the most part, do better (within the bounds of the US Constitution as it is currently interpreted). For example, let's say the federal government passes a law banning all handguns. The only votes against this measure are senators and representatives from the state of Washington. The federal government (i.e. all the senators and representatives from all the other states) is imposing its will on the people of Washington, who, ostensibly, don't want a ban on handguns. So, what does Washington state do? They pass a resolution similar to the one posted in the forum. Therefore, the US gets its ban on handguns in the other 49 states, and Washington gets to keep its intrastate handguns. Win-win. Without this kind of "states rights," the people of Washington would be left hanging and would not get what they want. That's why the federal government can regulate interstate commerce and not intrastate commerce. It's not right for people from other states to impose their respective wills on people from one state when interstate commerce is not affected.
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

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multilis wrote:"The federal government, lately at least, has infringed on personal privacy rights (President Bush)"

Do you think that if a terrorist attack succeeded in killing 100 thousand or more, that Obama would not "infringe" many times more to stop another attack? (A smart kid with a few million dollars and a dozen helpers could probably kill more than a million people easily using biological weapons. Hard to catch such a plot as infringes on privacy)

People would welcome a Hitler with open arms and give up their rights if the alternative "freedom" lacked security (they feared for their lives)... eg in Russia Putin is popular despite less "rights" because he brought stability. Hitler was voted dictorial powers by 90% of the people in a relatively "free/fair" election according to europe observers, including winning a majority in Jewish areas (they feared reprisals if they didn't).
Um, I think he probably would infringe on our rights, similar to what President Bush (and Congress) did. I'm not really trying to attack President Bush here; I'm trying to attack the members of the legislative and executive branches of the federal government, no matter the party.
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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

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Re: ResistDC: The Federal Tax Funds Act

Post by bedub1 »

The United States of America is just that, 50 states that have grouped together to form a single federal government. But the states still exist, and by the constitution which the states have passed creating the federal government, the states have the power and the feds do not.

The 10th Amendment to the constitution is where this division of power is explained.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
I applaud the states with this legislation and many others in place, concerning the guns and health laws etc. The founders of this country believe that one of the ways we should vote, is with our feet. If you live in a state that is passing laws that you don't like, then move. This country was designed so each state was in control of itself, and the federal government was small.

"as recently as 2005 the Supreme Court ruled that a person growing a plant on their own property, keeping it at home, and consuming it in their own home was somehow “interstate commerce.”
As I said in the other thread, this is just proof that the feds hate the 10th amendment, and want power over EVERYTHING. They would definitely prefer if the USA was just America, and there were no states.

It is my belief that the States need to stand up to the feds. IE, if the feds raid a medical marijuana place in California that isn't breaking any California laws, then the California police/sherifs/militia etc should go arrest the feds. It's time the States stood up to the Feds and gave them the finger.

EDIT: I also think it's a great idea for the state to collect the money then give some to the feds...don't let the feds hold out cash from a state. But the second they start doing that, I'm going to use the 10th amendment where it says "to the people" and withhold money from the state of Washington for the shit they do that is in direct violation of our state constitution(The state government is racist in it's distribution of funds).
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