Sympathies in favor of Israel or Palestine?

[Baron Von PWN]

So phatscotty asked me a question about Israel which got me wondering how people here on CC think about the whole Israel/Palestine thing.

So where do your sympathies lie?

[thegreekdog]

I lean very slightly towards Palestine, although I really don't care (I know, perish the thought).

[jay_a2j]

Now why would I choose the side God is against? Israel of course.

[BigBallinStalin]

The situation has no solution unless one group can completely annihilate the other.

(see: American Indians, and notice the lack of disharmony over the years from eliminating them)

[JPcelticfc]

The situation has no solution unless one group can completely annihilate the other.

(see: American Indians, and notice the lack of disharmony over the years from eliminating them)

Of course there can be a solution!! The place I live in (the north of Ireland) is a perfect example of how two sides can be brought together and co-exist relatively well.

And by the way, I definitely favor Palestine!! lol

[Baron Von PWN]

The situation has no solution unless one group can completely annihilate the other.

(see: American Indians, and notice the lack of disharmony over the years from eliminating them)

I disagree completely. The anhilation option would actually cause the most disharmony, how much warfare was there in the west? How many long term problems has the US inherited as a result? regardless the natives weren't eliminated. There is no need for one side to be annihilated, a solution can be found based on mutual respect and recognition of each others validity. I think Israel has been the one least willing to bend in that respect.

[bedub1]

The situation has no solution unless one group can completely annihilate the other.

(see: American Indians, and notice the lack of disharmony over the years from eliminating them)

Close....

The entire region should be nuked so it's a wasteland and nobody can live there. Then they can stop fighting over the "holy" land cause it's now the "holey" land. Of course I'm sure they will find something else to fight about. The two sides just need to be separated as they are psychotic and can't live together.

[Woodruff]

So phatscotty asked me a question about Israel which got me wondering how people here on CC think about the whole Israel/Palestine thing.
So where do your sympathies lie?

I lean very very slightly toward Israel. But not by much. It's a situation that's full of dumbass, frankly.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I'm gonna go with Palestine. I think Ben-Gurion really fucked it up when he, as leader of the Labor Zionist party, pretty much refused to cooperate with the natives already living there (I believe this is around the time of the Second Aaliyah--don't quote me on that). In this manner, he didn't allow the Palestinians to continue working their land, or continue living there. If memory serves, he wanted only Jews to work. It'd been much simpler if they had maintained a co-existence with the Palestinians, who had been practicing dry-farming for centuries.

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army."--Ben-Gurion in 1956.

a.k.a "We took your land, f*ck you and get over it."

-TG

[Army of GOD]

Palestinians slightly/don't care

[tkr4lf]

#2...I sympathize with Israel. Cuz you know....I'm not an anti-semite!

(haha, joke. but I do sympathize with Israel.)

[jay_a2j]

FYI The world will turn on Israel and seek to destroy her. And they will fail miserably. Guaranteed.




LONG LIVE ISRAEL!

[Army of GOD]

FYI The world will turn on Israel and seek to destroy her. And they will fail miserably. Guaranteed.




LONG LIVE ISRAEL!

Yea, God did a great job of protecting his people during the late 1930s/1940s.

And the thousands of years of shit they had before that.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

FYI The world will turn on Israel and seek to destroy her. And they will fail miserably. Guaranteed.




LONG LIVE ISRAEL!

Yeah I know, those fuckers know Krav Maga. Every one of them.

-TG

[jay_a2j]

FYI The world will turn on Israel and seek to destroy her. And they will fail miserably. Guaranteed.




LONG LIVE ISRAEL!

Yea, God did a great job of protecting his people during the late 1930s/1940s.

And the thousands of years of shit they had before that.

ALL things work together for good for those that love the Lord!

Hmmm why are the Jews the most persecuted people in history? You will find a revelation in the answer.

[Woodruff]

FYI The world will turn on Israel and seek to destroy her. And they will fail miserably. Guaranteed.

Nostrodahmus made a lot of guarantees too.

[GTE]

I'm gonna go with Palestine. I think Ben-Gurion really fucked it up when he, as leader of the Labor Zionist party, pretty much refused to cooperate with the natives already living there (I believe this is around the time of the Second Aaliyah--don't quote me on that). In this manner, he didn't allow the Palestinians to continue working their land, or continue living there. If memory serves, he wanted only Jews to work. It'd been much simpler if they had maintained a co-existence with the Palestinians, who had been practicing dry-farming for centuries.

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army."--Ben-Gurion in 1956.

a.k.a "We took your land, f*ck you and get over it."

-TG

Except you're leaving out one important fact, the Jews ARE the natives!

[Woodruff]

I'm gonna go with Palestine. I think Ben-Gurion really fucked it up when he, as leader of the Labor Zionist party, pretty much refused to cooperate with the natives already living there (I believe this is around the time of the Second Aaliyah--don't quote me on that). In this manner, he didn't allow the Palestinians to continue working their land, or continue living there. If memory serves, he wanted only Jews to work. It'd been much simpler if they had maintained a co-existence with the Palestinians, who had been practicing dry-farming for centuries.

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army."--Ben-Gurion in 1956.

a.k.a "We took your land, f*ck you and get over it."

-TG

Except you're leaving out one important fact, the Jews ARE the natives!

Well, one of the natives, yes.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I'm gonna go with Palestine. I think Ben-Gurion really fucked it up when he, as leader of the Labor Zionist party, pretty much refused to cooperate with the natives already living there (I believe this is around the time of the Second Aliyah--don't quote me on that). In this manner, he didn't allow the Palestinians to continue working their land, or continue living there. If memory serves, he wanted only Jews to work. It'd been much simpler if they had maintained a co-existence with the Palestinians, who had been practicing dry-farming for centuries.

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army."--Ben-Gurion in 1956.

a.k.a "We took your land, f*ck you and get over it."

-TG

Except you're leaving out one important fact, the Jews ARE the natives!

I think you're missing the part where Ben-Gurion admitted to taking their land. A quick glance at the wiki says that area was under Islamic rule since the 7th century, then Crusader rule from 1099-1187, then Mamluk rule until 1516, followed by the Ottoman Empire. It hasn't been under Jewish rule since mid 500 BC. That's about 2500 years.

Either way, the First Aliyah-era Jewish-Arab relations could be argued to be manageable. There wasn't war between them. It wasn't until the Second Aliyah (right before WWI) Jews fleeing the Russian pogroms and forming parties like the Poale Zion (followed by Hashomer and such) that things became bad.

And that's why I said I would mostly blame Israel.

-TG

Edit: Fixed spelling on Aliyah. The deceased singer has nothing to do with the situation.

[targetman377]

NUKE THE LOT THEN WE CAN HAVE OUR HOLY LAND BACK!!!!! lol jk guys who cares. oh wait i got a meat basket form Pakistan looks like i am for them wait wait i got a cheese basket from Israel! i am throughout a party and i will bring the crackers!!! it will be lovely and peace will rain form heaven on earth. oh sorry i was writing for pixar recently about there new film WHO CARES!

[Ray Rider]

There has never been a nation by the name of "Palestine." "Palestine" is a term used to describe an indefinite area of land which includes modern-day Israel. Prior to the modern state of Israel, the last nation to be based there was Jewish during the Bar Kokhba revolt of 132-136. Since then, that area of land has merely been either a province of various empires or divided up into weak mini-kingdoms (during the crusades). Most recently, it was a part of the Ottoman empire until around World War I, when the Ottoman Empire collapsed and the British took control of the area. Britain created a state for the Arabs (Transjordan) and a state for the Jews (Israel). Due to cultural ties and nationalistic sentiment combined with persecution, hundreds of thousands of Jews fled to Israel and for the same reasons hundreds of thousands of Arabs fled from the area. Israel absorbed the cost of their refugees and integrated them into society, while neighboring Arab nations forced many of the Arab refugees to remain in camps, perpetuating the problem.

As for my sympathies, I think it's pretty obvious where they lie.

I've posted this twice before here, but it's still worth checking out again:

A Partial Chronology of Judah-Cum-Palestine
70 -- The Romans conquer Jerusalem.
132-136 Jewish revolt under Bar Kochba; final defeat of Judah and loss of political sovereignty.
351 -- Jewish revolt to end foreign rule; Roman Empire adopts Christianity.
395 -- Palestine part of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, still called Judea or Judah.
438 -- Empress Eudocia allows Jews back to Temple site, misinterpreted by Jews as return to nationhood.
614 -- Persian conquest under Chosroes (with the support of a Jewish army).
628 – Palestine reconquered by the Byzantines.
633-637 – Arab conquest; shortly afterward, attempt by Jews to restore their nation.
639 – Muawiyah Arab governor.
660 – Muawiyah is made the first Omayyad Caliph of Damascus.
750 – Last Omayyad Caliph defeated; reign of the Abbassid Caliphs of Baghdad (Persian, Turk, Circassian, Kurd).
878 -- Ahmad, b. Tulun, a Turkish general and governor ofEgypt, conquers Palestine; reign of the Tulunides (Turks).
904 – The Abbassids of Baghdad reconquer Palestine.
906 – Inroads of the Carmathians
934 – The Egyptian Ikhshidi princes conquer Palestine; their reign begins.
969 – The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo conquer Palestine.
969-971 – War with the Carmathians.
970-976 – Byzantine invasion.
1070-1080 – Seljuk Turks conquer Palestine.
1099 – The Crusaders conquer Jerusalem, massacre the Jewish and Muslim populations; reign in parts of Palestine until 1291.
1187 – Saladin of Damascus, a Kurd, captures Jerusalem and the greater part of Palestine.
1244 – The Kharezmians, instigated by Genghis Khan, invade Palestine; Jerusalem’s population is slaughter, the city is sacked.
1260 – Mongol invasion; Jerusalem sacked.
1291 – End of the Latin (Crusaders) Kingdom.
1299-1303 Mongol invasion.
1516-1517 – The Ottomans conquer Palestine.
1799 – Napoleon conquers Palestine, but is defeated at Acre.
1831 – Ibrahim Pasha, adopted son of Egypt’s Viceroy, occupies Palestine.
1840 – Ibrahim Pasha compelled by the Powers to leave Palestine; Turkish rule restored.
1840 on – English writers and statesmen begin to discuss the possibility of a Jewish restoration.
1871-1882 – First Jewish agricultural settlements.
1909 – Foundation of the all-Jewish city of Tel Aviv.
1917-1918 – Allies occupy the whole of Palestine, east and west of the Jordan River; British military administration, end of Ottoman reign.
1917-1918 – Balfour Declaration granting “Jewish Homeland” Internationally approved.
1920 – British (pre-Mandate) civil administration; Turkish sovereignty renounced, treaty includes Balfour Declaration.
1922 – Palestine Mandate; Jewish National Home confirmed.
1923 – Palestine Mandate comes into operation.
1923 – Seventy-five percent of Palestine is set aside as an independent Arab “Palestinian” state, Transjordan.
1925 – Hebrew University of Jerusalem opened.
1929 – Arab revolt.
1936-1939 – Arab revolt and civil war.
1946 – Establishment of Arab state of Transjordan.
1948 – End of Mandate for Palestine; establishment of State of Israel; Arab-Jewish war.
1948 -- Eastern Palestine—Transjordan—occupies the West Bank area of Western Palestine, becomes “Jordan,” constituting over eighty percent of Palestine.
*Compiled from data of Hogarth, Hitti, Leish, Frankenstein, Katz, Guillaume, Parkes, Ben-Sasson, Anglo-American Survey (1946), pp.1-86, particularly pp. 1, 4, 5, 13, 14.

[radiojake]

Israel to me seems to fit all of the hallmarks of an abused-child who has grown up to continue abusing others as a grown adult.

[PLAYER57832]

FYI The world will turn on Israel and seek to destroy her. And they will fail miserably. Guaranteed.




LONG LIVE ISRAEL!

News flash a lot of Palestiniens are CHRISTIAN, jay.

[jay_a2j]

FYI The world will turn on Israel and seek to destroy her. And they will fail miserably. Guaranteed.




LONG LIVE ISRAEL!

News flash a lot of Palestiniens are CHRISTIAN, jay.

Why is this news to you? Indeed many across the globe have come to know the truth. This in no way negates what WILL happen.

[PLAYER57832]

There has never been a nation by the name of "Palestine." "Palestine" is a term used to describe an indefinite area of land which includes modern-day Israel.

This is technically true. There were, instead tribes and the tribes were structured in ways not exactly parallel to western countries. However, there were people who lived there and their land was taken because they were not white and Jewish.

Due to cultural ties and nationalistic sentiment combined with persecution, hundreds of thousands of Jews fled to Israel and for the same reasons hundreds of thousands of Arabs fled from the area. Israel absorbed the cost of their refugees and integrated them into society, while neighboring Arab nations forced many of the Arab refugees to remain in camps, perpetuating the problem.

Hundreds and thousands of Jews fled to Israel because of the Holocaust, but did that tragedy givet hem the right to steal Palestinien land? And to steal it even today?