GR(35) vs. TLW(25) of 61 [Final]

[jigger1986]

The Grim Reapers, looking to continue to highly competitive clan ladder will be facing off against The Last Warriors.
The start date for this war has been set for May, 14th.

Contacts
GR-jigger1986
TLW-slickstick

The War:

61 games, 10 dubs, 20 trips, 30 quads, to be split evenly between the two clans
Players can be in 20 games maximum
Maps can be used twice, but only once per team size

Three rounds:
round 1-5 dubs, 5 quads
round 2-10 trips
round 3-10 quads
tiebreaker-1 quads game on random map with settings-esc,chained,foggy

Exclusions:
beta maps
freestyle
manual drops
unlimited forts
speed games

GR-Round 1

Dubs
Game 9067917-8 Thoughts-GR
Game 9067914-Feudal War-TLW
Game 9067913-Arms Race-GR
Game 9067911-Europe 1914-GR
Game 9067909-WWII Poland-GR
Quads
Game 9067934-Charleston-GR
Game 9067925-Draknor-GR
Game 9067924-Conquerman-GR
Game 9067921-Austerlitz-TLW
Game 9162843-Feudal Epic-TLW

TLW Round 1

Dubs
Game 9064625-WWII Iwo Jima-GR
Game 9064623-Age of Realms 2-TLW
Game 9064587-Thyseneal-GR
Game 9064537-City Mogul-TLW
Game 9064532-Tamriel-TLW
Quads
Game 9064635-NYC-GR
Game 9064634-New World-GR
Game 9064633-Pearl Harbor-GR
Game 9064632-Asia-TLW
Game 9064629-City Mogul-TLW

GR Round 2

Trips
Game 9128472-Ireland-GR
Game 9128471-Clandemonium-GR
Game 9128470-Forbidden City-GR
Game 9128469-Das Schloss-TLW
Game 9128467-Battle for Iraq-TLW
Game 9128466-Poison Rome-GR
Game 9128465-Feudal War-GR
Game 9128462-Arms Race-GR
Game 9128461-Stalingrad-GR
Game 9128459-Draknor-GR

TLW Round 2

Trips
Game 9125605-Das Schloss-TLW
Game 9125607-Classic-TLW
Game 9125610-Bamboo jack-GR
Game 9125611-Soviet union-TLW
Game 9125613-Africa-GR
Game 9125619-Canada-TLW
Game 9125622-Jamaica-GR
Game 9125623-England-TLW
Game 9125626-WWII Ardennes-GR
Game 9125634-Brazil-GR

GR Round 3

Quads
Game 9203563-Poker Club-TLW
Game 9203565-Stalingrad-TLW
Game 9203567-Imperium Romanium-GR
Game 9203568-WWII Poland-GR
Game 9203571-Forbidden City-GR
Game 9203575-Supermax-TLW
Game 9203576-Jamaica-TLW
Game 9203577-British Isles-GR
Game 9203578-Poison Rome-TLW
Game 9203605-Das Schloss-TLW

TLW Round 3

Quads
Game 9198003-Tamriel-GR
Game 9198002-San Marino-GR
Game 9198000-Midkemdil-TLW
Game 9197999-Operation Drug War-GR
Game 9197997-Sydney Metro-TLW
Game 9197995-USApocalypse-GR
Game 9197994-World 2.1GR
Game 9197992-Charleston-TLW
Game 9197989-WWII Europe-GR
Game 9197987-First Nations North America-TLW

Tiebreaker

Good luck to The Warriors, lets have a competitive and fun war!

[iamkoolerthanu]

The Last Warriors.. This will be your Last Battle, after we slaughter all your men

Good Luck you guys!

[patrickaa317]

Warriors! Come out to pla-ay!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXmPH2nT ... re=related

[slickstick]

Good luck Grim Reapers

[Qwert]

""The Grim Reapers, looking to continue to highly competitive clan ladder will be facing off against The Last Warriors.""

hmm,i wonder what clan ladder you using?

[jigger1986]

""The Grim Reapers, looking to continue to highly competitive clan ladder will be facing off against The Last Warriors.""

hmm,i wonder what clan ladder you using?

Not a real ladder so to speak, more of an idea that the bottom 200 or so clans are so close togther. (conpared to the top 10 where even the difference between 1-4 or 7-10 could be big) In the bottom/middle the difference of 6 clans could be very small

[danryan]

This is a good challenge, two experienced clans, I'll pick Grim Reapers by a few. Maybe 33-28 here?

[soundman]

Good luck everyone!

[General Brewsie]

Do any of you know what is happening to the Grim Reapers in our clan's "2011 [May] Grim Reapers vs The Last Warriors" tourney with them? I've had five of those games on my waiting list for quite a while. Our ranks are full and none of them has joined.

[jigger1986]

The agreed upon start date for the challenge in May 14th. Your war leader decided to make the games early, and to be fair I gave him a list of our home games as well. (although I will only be making them on a couple days before we start)

[slickstick]

The agreed upon start date for the challenge in May 14th. Your war leader decided to make the games early, and to be fair I gave him a list of our home games as well. (although I will only be making them on a couple days before we start)

What Jigger said

[iamkoolerthanu]

Well now the start date is inching ever closer.. TLW, good luck, you might just need it

[jigger1986]

Reapers draw first blood with a win on 8 thoughts. Good game guys!
Ive checked the rest of the first round games, it looks like well have a tough, tight first round.

[patrickaa317]

What's going on with the below games?

Game 9067919
Game 9067921


I think both sides would agree that all of one players troops & territs being defaulted to a fellow team member on either of those maps would be enough to swing some advantage their way.

What are there rules for winning a game where a fellow clan member is booted for violating the rules? If one team member of the winning 4x100m relay team is using the "juice", do the other team members still get their win & gold medal? I think we'd all agree that they definitely shouldn't.

What are the Warriors feelings on one of their members getting booted for rule violations? Are they willing to discard the results to those games and give it another try? (I personally feel that a forfeit should almost be in place but I think throwing those games out and starting new ones would be more than fair to both sides).

[spicyblue]

Nice how Game 9064634 doesn't seem to matter at all does it? So, as long as we forfeit the games we won it's square?

Now, I don't want to start a shitstorm here so I'm going to be perfectly clear. No one is more upset with Mightor than The Last Warriors and I... I always thought he was a balanced player, but this is the sort of thing that happens with anonymity. Also, I don't handle the details, so I can't say these are the only three games affected by Mightor's rule violations. In fact, I KNOW they aren't since we're involved multiple clan wars and various tournaments, but as far as I know these are the only three GR vs. TLW games (again, I have done no research and have nothing to back this up other than than the fact if there were more games Patrickaa317 most likely would have listed them).

Also, I want to say that generally, having a teammate kicked for rule violations would be a BAD thing (even if those armies default to a teammate). However, in the games cited below we clearly gained an advantage. Since Mightor is a member in my clan, I'm willing to forfeit all of the games in question.

I'm 99% sure no one else in the clan engages in the activities that got Migtor kicked out (although if you asked me about Mightor two weeks ago I would have said the same). So, in the interest of fair play for us rule-abiding citizens, I humbly request that we replay ALL games in which Mightor was kicked out (which may or may not be the three listed in this thread).

So, I leave it to the Grim Reapers... you can gain three wins from our mistake or replay all of the games in which Mightor was kicked out (I'm not suggesting we replay any games in which Mightor was eliminated or otherwise completed by conventional rules). I don't know what the prescient is or what the rules say in this situation, and whatever your decision, know that there won't be any bad blood between us. I just hope you can accept my sincere apologies for the behavior of my clan.

What's going on with the below games?

Game 9067919
Game 9067921


I think both sides would agree that all of one players troops & territs being defaulted to a fellow team member on either of those maps would be enough to swing some advantage their way.

What are there rules for winning a game where a fellow clan member is booted for violating the rules? If one team member of the winning 4x100m relay team is using the "juice", do the other team members still get their win & gold medal? I think we'd all agree that they definitely shouldn't.

What are the Warriors feelings on one of their members getting booted for rule violations? Are they willing to discard the results to those games and give it another try? (I personally feel that a forfeit should almost be in place but I think throwing those games out and starting new ones would be more than fair to both sides).

[General Brewsie]

The tournament games that Mightor was playing at the time he was disbarred as a CC member should not be forfeited. His rules violation was that of being a multi, a violation which affected his own personal total point count and his rank only. Being a multi did not affect the tournament games, because his alter ego was not playing in the tourney games.

The CC rules in place for handling disbarring/eliminating a player while a game is underway must be applied to these games and accepted by all as fair. If the cry were accepted that these rules are unfair because they gave his remaining team members an advantage, then the cry would have to apply to any game, whether a tournament game or not and therefore would imply that the rules for this situation must be changed. Until the rules are changed, they must be accepted, for any and all games. Again, just because the games this turkey was playing were tourney games, the games should not be forfeited, nor should any other deviation from the standard practice be applied.

[iamkoolerthanu]

I am not inside Pat's head, but I think the only reason that he cited only the games we lost because of Mightors unfortunate situation, is because, basically, it was your player who broke the site rules, therefore, why should you benefit by being able to replay a lost game?

Now, although I am a leader of GR, this post in NOT a representation of the clans thoughts, and is not GR's final decision on the matter. It is mearly my opinion, us GR members still need to talk this out

I think, that since this was the foolish act of a single player and not of your whole clan, that all of those games that he participated in (and yes, it is the only three games listed above) should be replayed, with all the same players and settings, with you subbing in one player to replace Mightor. And when I say one player to replace Mightor, I don't mean a different player in each game, I mean one player for all three

That is just my opinion, and not a final ruling, but personally, I don't think you guys knew he was a multi, and you definitely didn't mean to benefit from this. It is unfortunate, but if, god forbid, one of my fellow Reapers turned out to be a multi, I would be shocked and outraged, and would hope to receive some leniency from any opposing clans that we were versing at the time

The above was written before General Brewsie's post
The Below was written after General Brewsie's post

General, I see your point, however, I feel like clan war games should be looked at differently than regular games. Think of this as a sport. You play intramural games agaisnt whoever will play you, to get your team better and ready for the 'playoffs'. So if someone bends the rules a bit during those 'practice' games, you let it slide. After all, those games are mainly to just raise your skill level, they don't really count towards much.

Now, you are in the 'playoffs', and someone is breaking the same rules that were broken in the intramural game, except now it very well might cause you to lose the playoffs. Is the ref going to let the foul play slide? Or is greater action going to be taken against the team?

Now like I said, if this were a GR member I would be just as shocked as you, and would hope the opposing clan could be lenient, but a clan still is responsible for their members action, whether they like it or not..

[patrickaa317]

Nice how Game 9064634 doesn't seem to matter at all does it? So, as long as we forfeit the games we won it's square?

Now, I don't want to start a shitstorm here so I'm going to be perfectly clear. No one is more upset with Mightor than The Last Warriors and I... I always thought he was a balanced player, but this is the sort of thing that happens with anonymity. Also, I don't handle the details, so I can't say these are the only three games affected by Mightor's rule violations. In fact, I KNOW they aren't since we're involved multiple clan wars and various tournaments, but as far as I know these are the only three GR vs. TLW games (again, I have done no research and have nothing to back this up other than than the fact if there were more games Patrickaa317 most likely would have listed them).

Also, I want to say that generally, having a teammate kicked for rule violations would be a BAD thing (even if those armies default to a teammate). However, in the games cited below we clearly gained an advantage. Since Mightor is a member in my clan, I'm willing to forfeit all of the games in question.

I'm 99% sure no one else in the clan engages in the activities that got Migtor kicked out (although if you asked me about Mightor two weeks ago I would have said the same). So, in the interest of fair play for us rule-abiding citizens, I humbly request that we replay ALL games in which Mightor was kicked out (which may or may not be the three listed in this thread).

So, I leave it to the Grim Reapers... you can gain three wins from our mistake or replay all of the games in which Mightor was kicked out (I'm not suggesting we replay any games in which Mightor was eliminated or otherwise completed by conventional rules). I don't know what the prescient is or what the rules say in this situation, and whatever your decision, know that there won't be any bad blood between us. I just hope you can accept my sincere apologies for the behavior of my clan.

What's going on with the below games?

Game 9067919
Game 9067921


I think both sides would agree that all of one players troops & territs being defaulted to a fellow team member on either of those maps would be enough to swing some advantage their way.

What are there rules for winning a game where a fellow clan member is booted for violating the rules? If one team member of the winning 4x100m relay team is using the "juice", do the other team members still get their win & gold medal? I think we'd all agree that they definitely shouldn't.

What are the Warriors feelings on one of their members getting booted for rule violations? Are they willing to discard the results to those games and give it another try? (I personally feel that a forfeit should almost be in place but I think throwing those games out and starting new ones would be more than fair to both sides).

I think if you have a teammate that violates the rules and you lose, I don't understand how a replay should be done; though I'm not authorized to make any official decisions in this war though. It was your team that violated the rules. I realize you guys didn't work with him and had no idea that it was going on but you guys are a team. I don't see how we should have to replay a game TLW violated the rules in and also lost.

Those are the only three games I know of by the way but I don't look past our war with you. Frankly what goes on in other clan wars is none of my business.

In my opinion from re-reviewing the game logs, Game 9067921 may not have mattered whether Mightor was kicked out. Game 9067919 is definitely a different story though:

2011-05-18 22:23:44 - Incrementing game to round 3
2011-05-19 01:09:47 - Mightor got bonus of 5 troops added to Rebel Castle
2011-05-19 01:09:47 - Mightor received 3 troops for holding 6 Rebel Territories
2011-05-20 06:31:42 - Deathwink got bonus of 5 troops added to Rebel Castle
2011-05-20 06:31:42 - Deathwink received 3 troops for holding 6 Rebel Territories
2011-05-20 13:16:40 - Incrementing game to round 4

Your team received those bonuses twice in the same round...

[patrickaa317]

I am not inside Pat's head, but I think the only reason that he cited only the games we lost because of Mightors unfortunate situation, is because, basically, it was your player who broke the site rules, therefore, why should you benefit by being able to replay a lost game?

Actually Kooler, I think you are inside my head. Get out!

You are right on with where I was coming from.

[jigger1986]

Well this was alot to read.as hosts of this clan war, Slickstick and I will negotiate an appropriate solution. I personally dont think that the games should be forfeited under these circumstances as it was not negotiated before the war began. I know that if the shoe was on the other foot, the Reapers would be embarrassed (as TLW is) and we would hope that our opponents would be reasonable in there demands. I will be pushing for a re-play of the two games that GR lost where Mightor was removed before being conventionally eliminated.

Game 9067921
Game 9067919

Its a shitty situation here guys, and I fell for you. I know if the roles were reversed I would be so pissed. You entire clan should not be penalized for the actions of 1 player and therefore I feel like a re-play is the most fair solution. I hope you guys can agree to this.

-jig

[TheMissionary]

MM had a similar situation when we were in our first couple of challenges. Really neither clan can predict what is happening with each person in the clan. We lost games due to the problem, and won some due to the problem. Therefore, the only advice I could give, is to have clans screen their members better before letting them join your clan. It's a bad deal for both sides. Prevention is the only solution.

[slickstick]

I went and looked at all 3 games that mightor was involved in prior to being kicked out, and i agree that him being kicked out of the feudal game swung things in our favor, BUT the austerlitz game was just plain and simple well played by our team as it did not benefit us at all, for 3 rounds we were getting less deploy until we eliminated one of your players, when he got kicked we had 1 player with 1 territory.The New world game was already a foregone conclusion by the time he got kicked out, but as your players are bringing this whole issue up, we will do whatever you guys want as it was one of our players that violated the rules of CC, including forfeiting if your hearts desire this.(My personal feeling on this issue is that this should have been brought up when this happened, and not have waited until you lost the games to dispute it, as i said this is my personal feelings and not that of my clan.)

Well this was alot to read.as hosts of this clan war, Slickstick and I will negotiate an appropriate solution. I personally dont think that the games should be forfeited under these circumstances as it was not negotiated before the war began. I know that if the shoe was on the other foot, the Reapers would be embarrassed (as TLW is) and we would hope that our opponents would be reasonable in there demands. I will be pushing for a re-play of the two games that GR lost where Mightor was removed before being conventionally eliminated.

Game 9067921
Game 9067919

Its a shitty situation here guys, and I fell for you. I know if the roles were reversed I would be so pissed. You entire clan should not be penalized for the actions of 1 player and therefore I feel like a re-play is the most fair solution. I hope you guys can agree to this.

-jig

[YoBFelip]

44 - whakamole [team]: also a problem: we're working their asses
2011-05-30 21:55:30 - spicyblue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA
2011-05-30 22:00:07 - spicyblue: I never said that was the only way to win... just complaining about the dice
2011-05-30 22:02:30 - spicyblue: I was referring to the fact that competitive matches like this are almost impossible to win if your dice go sour... the only way for us to get back into it is to roll <=2% dice (and I'm not placing that bet)
2011-05-30 22:03:19 - spicyblue: So (to be perfectly clear since you're obviously thick) you can take your conceited "whoa, something random happened" comment and shove it up your ass
2011-05-30 22:19:42 - spicyblue: Also, I don't need dice stats to tell me how unlucky this game is going for me
2011-05-30 22:31:32 - dfp2dep: kmhebert for dfp2dep again

This is the friendly clan we are playing against

[MyTurnToWin]

REPLY TO PHILLIPM:

I have no recollection of ever playing you or talking to you.... so please don't make a statement about the entire clan because of your interaction with one player.

Thank you.

[spicyblue]

44 - whakamole [team]: also a problem: we're working their asses
2011-05-30 21:55:30 - spicyblue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA
2011-05-30 22:00:07 - spicyblue: I never said that was the only way to win... just complaining about the dice
2011-05-30 22:02:30 - spicyblue: I was referring to the fact that competitive matches like this are almost impossible to win if your dice go sour... the only way for us to get back into it is to roll <=2% dice (and I'm not placing that bet)
2011-05-30 22:03:19 - spicyblue: So (to be perfectly clear since you're obviously thick) you can take your conceited "whoa, something random happened" comment and shove it up your ass
2011-05-30 22:19:42 - spicyblue: Also, I don't need dice stats to tell me how unlucky this game is going for me
2011-05-30 22:31:32 - dfp2dep: kmhebert for dfp2dep again

This is the friendly clan we are playing against

So, GR makes snide comments in the game chat and we're not allowed to respond?