Poaching?

[Gunn217]

Why does everything have to be about the rules. Why can't it be about RIGHT...Or...WRONG.

Look at it this way, let's say that CC Rules equates to RL Laws...for arguments sake, OK? It's not against the law for Jon Jones to fight one of the Ultimate Fighter contestants, who is pro, but only has a couple of fights and has never fought in the UFC. Would you say that it was RIGHT for Jones to fight him?

Don't give me that crap about "as long as that guy agreed to it". Of course the guy would agree. Fight the champ, get some recognition. But what is to gain from it? Jones would destroy 999 out of 1000 "noobs" in that scenario. I give you one just to be courteous.

I don't understand why great players want to play new/inexperienced/bad players. Is it because they don't win at anything in real life and just want to feel the rush of a win any way they can get it? Is there some sort of inner reward from playing people that have no clue what they are doing? Do they have to be ranked high so that they feel some self worth?

I would never even consider setting up a team game and inviting ONE random player so that a solid team can't join against me. Someone tell me a decent reason for someone doing that (other than "it's not against the rules"). Why join a game against someone you've beaten 20 someodd times without a loss? For the 10 points you'd get? Does getting 7000 points 10 points at a time show that you are a great player?

There are dozens of players that play this way so there is no need to jump on me that I'm attacking someone in particular. I'm lumping them all into one.

I'm steady as a low Major or high Capt. I've never had a hat and suspect I may never get one. I'm OK with it. The fact is, I'm not even close to being the best player on this site. I might not even be in the top ten of my clan. But other than an unhealthy addiction to CC I have a successful life having everything I've ever dreamed of. Maybe that's why I don't manipulate the site to get a higher rank.

I'm really impressed with some of the people I've met on CC. The best players I know don't really care about rank or points. They achieve high rank because they are great, not because they go looking for weak prey.

[safariguy5]

I like to draw the analogy to steroid use in baseball. Would Barry Bonds have been a Hall of Famer without steroids? I would argue yes. He could have hit say 600 homers without steroids. The roids gave him the extra 150 or so to break the record. Some people feel that they need the push to go from being great to legendary. That's how I see it.

[DoomYoshi]

For Jon Jones to fight a newb as a main event would not be right. For him to use the noob as a sparring partner is perfectly legitimate though. Since CC has no system to sparring, ranked games are as close as we can get.

[Gunn217]

I like the analogy but one could argue that those guys did it for the big paychecks. At least they were getting something from doing the "wrong" thing. You don't get anything from CC except a higher score..and thus is my question. How can it feel good to have a bird, star, or the conqueror symbol by your name if you got it by manipulating the new or weak?

I only know 3 people on CC in real life so I can't speak to the actual character of some of those unethical players but it seems like if you take advantage of the weak on here, you likely take advantage of the weak in other aspects of life.

[Gunn217]

For Jon Jones to fight a newb as a main event would not be right. For him to use the noob as a sparring partner is perfectly legitimate though. Since CC has no system to sparring, ranked games are as close as we can get.

I like this one. It makes a lot of sense. And it would explain a few games here and there. But hundreds of games?

And I'm not sure but don't a lot of fighters use bigger sparring partners and other pros so that they get better? Using a weak player/fighter would only allow you to practice routine combo's techniques. They would never push you to be better.

[HighlanderAttack]

I am mostly with you. Not my style to prey on the weak--if they come up in tourney play --I do lick my chops

That being said--whatever anyone gets from this game is what they get from it.

It is more the scoreboard and CC's scoring system that are at fault here.

It will be debated forever.

[safariguy5]

I like the analogy but one could argue that those guys did it for the big paychecks. At least they were getting something from doing the "wrong" thing. You don't get anything from CC except a higher score..and thus is my question. How can it feel good to have a bird, star, or the conqueror symbol by your name if you got it by manipulating the new or weak?

I only know 3 people on CC in real life so I can't speak to the actual character of some of those unethical players but it seems like if you take advantage of the weak on here, you likely take advantage of the weak in other aspects of life.

I suppose it doesn't bother Barry if he has an asterisk. Notoriety (both good and bad) probably has to count for something to some people.

[pearljamrox2]

The wild kingdom is also sick of the strong attacking the weak.

http://youtu.be/LU8DDYz68kM

[danfrank]

what i find interesting , since they fixed the loophole in freestyle the once great players are now mediocre like the rest of us

[ljex]

what i find interesting , since they fixed the loophole in freestyle the once great players are now mediocre like the rest of us

cant tell if this was a sarcastic post or not but im just going to operate under the notion that it wasnt. If it was disregard the below...


The once great freestyle players of that time just dont play for points anymore they could still gain points almost as easily if they wanted to

[danfrank]

what i find interesting , since they fixed the loophole in freestyle the once great players are now mediocre like the rest of us

cant tell if this was a sarcastic post or not but im just going to operate under the notion that it wasnt. If it was disregard the below...


The once great freestyle players of that time just dont play for points anymore they could still gain points almost as easily if they wanted to

I dont know about that , I`m sure some could and some could not.. To say motivated by points all of a sudden changed to motivated by .. Is like saying a good earner $$$ all of a sudden dislikes money ..

To me personally , i can careless if one poaches or farms , whatever they call it today.. In the end it`s an internet game and if that brings them enjoyment then so be it. It`s all about having fun.

My initial statement is more of a poke at the site for making rule changes to balance the game to the way they see fit. Just think in the future if a ? joined one of your games .. You will have all ones while they have the standard 3 men per territory

[QoH]

IA, where would you classify the actions, of say, Malabrosse, who plays 1v1 speed games that anyone can join? Good, bad, otherwise?

[oVo]

I don't understand why great players want to play new/inexperienced/bad players. [...] The best players I know don't really care about rank or points.

People play this game for a wide variety of reasons. Some seriously want to accumulate points and climb the ranks while others are looking for a well played game. Not all noobs to this site are clueless or unskilled at the nuances of playing this game. A 1v1 poses a certain amount of risk when challenged by an unknown and puts more points on the line. Veteran players who prefer stacking the deck in their favor set up trips & quad public games knowing their crew will crush anyone who takes them on, particularly noobs who randomly become a "team" and aren't likely to coordinate moves as a group.

The players who don't care about points or rank and want a good competitive match probably create some games inviting certain players to join. But they don't avoid public games where noobs or whoever randomly joins doesn't guarantee an edge.

noob ≠ bad

[Gunn217]

IA, where would you classify the actions, of say, Malabrosse, who plays 1v1 speed games that anyone can join? Good, bad, otherwise?

I don't see a problem with it.

[IR1SH ACE]

IA, where would you classify the actions, of say, Malabrosse, who plays 1v1 speed games that anyone can join? Good, bad, otherwise?

I don't see a problem with it.

had a quick look and it looks grand...he plays public speed games that anyone can join...

Im not wasting anymore of my time in checking out the cheap tactics employed by certain members towards the top of the scoreboard it is plainly obvious that this site only cares about the money and not the valid concerns of honest members who are unhappy that there scoreboard has been hijacked by a minority of very sad and pathetic players..

I really believe that some of these guys had very sad child hoods and were loser's in life and probably begrudge the fact that every kid gets a medal these days in school sports days, even the loser's get a medal and they are unhappy that they were loser's but never got anything but abuse and now they have grown up and found this site and thought..."I know I was a loser & pathetic in my whole life but not now I can become the best there ever is on this gaming site"....they start off with good intentions to make it to the top but after a bit of time they realize that they are still a loser and will never make it and all those child hood memory's come folding back but rather then quit they look at the system and think how can I get around this and make it look like Im the best....

well good luck to them but we all know there still loser's and pathetic....

oh and if your reading this and think that I am Flaming/Baiting you then you are probably one of the loser's I am talking about...

[lynch5762]

IA, where would you classify the actions, of say, Malabrosse, who plays 1v1 speed games that anyone can join? Good, bad, otherwise?

I don't see a problem with it.

had a quick look and it looks grand...he plays public speed games that anyone can join...

Im not wasting anymore of my time in checking out the cheap tactics employed by certain members towards the top of the scoreboard it is plainly obvious that this site only cares about the money and not the valid concerns of honest members who are unhappy that there scoreboard has been hijacked by a minority of very sad and pathetic players..

I really believe that some of these guys had very sad child hoods and were loser's in life and probably begrudge the fact that every kid gets a medal these days in school sports days, even the loser's get a medal and they are unhappy that they were loser's but never got anything but abuse and now they have grown up and found this site and thought..."I know I was a loser & pathetic in my whole life but not now I can become the best there ever is on this gaming site"....they start off with good intentions to make it to the top but after a bit of time they realize that they are still a loser and will never make it and all those child hood memory's come folding back but rather then quit they look at the system and think how can I get around this and make it look like Im the best....

well good luck to them but we all know there still loser's and pathetic....

oh and if your reading this and think that I am Flaming/Baiting you then you are probably one of the loser's I am talking about...

+1
I have to laugh because this reminds me of when I coached little league baseball. One year we had a team that couldn't be beat but we we had to play a team late in the season that hadn't won a game yet... to make a long story short.... I benched all of my starters and the other team won. This same team went on to face Japan in the little league world series final and lost by 2 runs. The funny thing is... when I talk to these guys today, they still remember losing that game on purpose and enjoy the memory more so than losing to Japan in the world series. I have always found it amazing that this bunch of 12 year old's seemed to understand already that competition was only fun if it was truly competitive. Sorry that I took this moment to reflect but to this date I can remember every player's name on that team!

[chapcrap]

IA, where would you classify the actions, of say, Malabrosse, who plays 1v1 speed games that anyone can join? Good, bad, otherwise?

I don't see a problem with it.

had a quick look and it looks grand...he plays public speed games that anyone can join...

Im not wasting anymore of my time in checking out the cheap tactics employed by certain members towards the top of the scoreboard it is plainly obvious that this site only cares about the money and not the valid concerns of honest members who are unhappy that there scoreboard has been hijacked by a minority of very sad and pathetic players..

I really believe that some of these guys had very sad child hoods and were loser's in life and probably begrudge the fact that every kid gets a medal these days in school sports days, even the loser's get a medal and they are unhappy that they were loser's but never got anything but abuse and now they have grown up and found this site and thought..."I know I was a loser & pathetic in my whole life but not now I can become the best there ever is on this gaming site"....they start off with good intentions to make it to the top but after a bit of time they realize that they are still a loser and will never make it and all those child hood memory's come folding back but rather then quit they look at the system and think how can I get around this and make it look like Im the best....

well good luck to them but we all know there still loser's and pathetic....

oh and if your reading this and think that I am Flaming/Baiting you then you are probably one of the loser's I am talking about...

+1
I have to laugh because this reminds me of when I coached little league baseball. One year we had a team that couldn't be beat but we we had to play a team late in the season that hadn't won a game yet... to make a long story short.... I benched all of my starters and the other team won. This same team went on to face Japan in the little league world series final and lost by 2 runs. The funny thing is... when I talk to these guys today, they still remember losing that game on purpose and enjoy the memory more so than losing to Japan in the world series. I have always found it amazing that this bunch of 12 year old's seemed to understand already that competition was only fun if it was truly competitive. Sorry that I took this moment to reflect but to this date I can remember every player's name on that team!

Yes, but how many points did your team lose in the loss?

[ljex]

IA, where would you classify the actions, of say, Malabrosse, who plays 1v1 speed games that anyone can join? Good, bad, otherwise?

I don't see a problem with it.

had a quick look and it looks grand...he plays public speed games that anyone can join...

Im not wasting anymore of my time in checking out the cheap tactics employed by certain members towards the top of the scoreboard it is plainly obvious that this site only cares about the money and not the valid concerns of honest members who are unhappy that there scoreboard has been hijacked by a minority of very sad and pathetic players..

I really believe that some of these guys had very sad child hoods and were loser's in life and probably begrudge the fact that every kid gets a medal these days in school sports days, even the loser's get a medal and they are unhappy that they were loser's but never got anything but abuse and now they have grown up and found this site and thought..."I know I was a loser & pathetic in my whole life but not now I can become the best there ever is on this gaming site"....they start off with good intentions to make it to the top but after a bit of time they realize that they are still a loser and will never make it and all those child hood memory's come folding back but rather then quit they look at the system and think how can I get around this and make it look like Im the best....

well good luck to them but we all know there still loser's and pathetic....

oh and if your reading this and think that I am Flaming/Baiting you then you are probably one of the loser's I am talking about...

Its funny how you make a generalization like that and openly judge a set of players who lets be honest you know nothing about. Its pretty clear you are grouping all of the conquerors in to this argument and me being one of them i feel like i should respond with why i went for it. Its not because i wanted to prove that i was/am the best or whatever you say here or that i had a bad childhood which by all standards i had a pretty good one. The actual reason i went for it was plain and simple to see if i could...i dint stay there for long maybe a week tops and since have played the games i enjoy. You can say im sad and pathetic all you want but at the end of the day i come to this site for the same reason as you. I come here to have fun...just because my definition of what is fun is different than yours doesnt give you the right to post a downright insulting post as the one above.

You say I am a loser and yet i would bet i have been more successful in my 22 years than you were in your first 22.

[Master Fenrir]

it is plainly obvious that this site only cares about the money and not the valid concerns of honest members who are unhappy that there scoreboard has been hijacked by a minority of very sad and pathetic players...

Judging by all the upset people on the forums, it must not be that obvious, because most people haven't seemed to pick up on that.

well good luck to them but we all know there still loser's and pathetic....

oh and if your reading this and think that I am Flaming/Baiting you then you are probably one of the loser's I am talking about...

I don't think it's flaming or baiting, but let's be reasonable here. In order to get to the top you must win many points and lose few. Farming is not the best way to do this. The best way to do it is to play games against evenly-scored opponents and win the majority of them because you're that good. However, the safest way to do it is to farm.

Think of it this way...if your goal is to acquire money, which do you think will actually get you more money: robbing 1 bank or robbing 10 lemonade stands? While you're only going to net like $100 for robbing the lemonade stands, odds are that you don't pull of the bank job successfully and that nets you $0.

Sure, you make some little girls cry and now their parents have to form neighborhood watch committees and enroll their daughters in Tae Kwon Do classes, but you get $100 bucks and free lemonade. CC is the exact same. While I'm personally too nice of a guy to make little girls cry, I'm sure there are plenty of ways to rationalize it.

I guess that what I'm trying to say is that I'm thirsty. No metaphor.

[safariguy5]

it is plainly obvious that this site only cares about the money and not the valid concerns of honest members who are unhappy that there scoreboard has been hijacked by a minority of very sad and pathetic players...

Judging by all the upset people on the forums, it must not be that obvious, because most people haven't seemed to pick up on that.

well good luck to them but we all know there still loser's and pathetic....

oh and if your reading this and think that I am Flaming/Baiting you then you are probably one of the loser's I am talking about...

I don't think it's flaming or baiting, but let's be reasonable here. In order to get to the top you must win many points and lose few. Farming is not the best way to do this. The best way to do it is to play games against evenly-scored opponents and win the majority of them because you're that good. However, the safest way to do it is to farm.

Think of it this way...if your goal is to acquire money, which do you think will actually get you more money: robbing 1 bank or robbing 10 lemonade stands? While you're only going to net like $100 for robbing the lemonade stands, odds are that you don't pull of the bank job successfully and that nets you $0.

Sure, you make some little girls cry and now their parents have to form neighborhood watch committees and enroll their daughters in Tae Kwon Do classes, but you get $100 bucks and free lemonade. CC is the exact same. While I'm personally too nice of a guy to make little girls cry, I'm sure there are plenty of ways to rationalize it.

I guess that what I'm trying to say is that I'm thirsty. No metaphor.

*ahem* I'm gonna have to call pedobear on that.

[PassIsPaws]

Pretty sure one of my first games I beat a pretty high ranked player.

Pretty sure he was mad after lol.

But really... who cares about leaderboards? Its a game. Aren't you here because you have fun playing it? Not the shiny awards next to your name? Granted I come back and leave this game often. But i've been around since 2007. The leaderboards have always have people who fight over "validity". It's like that on any game no mater where you go.

But it sounds hypocritical to get angry at them for doing things "dirty" because "they care WAY too much" or w/e. Then go on and care enough about the rankings yourself to care weather or not they do "dirty" things. Why can't people just play lol?

[fishydance]

I'm really impressed with some of the people I've met on CC. The best players I know don't really care about rank or points. They achieve high rank because they are great, not because they go looking for weak prey.

Well said. I've been fortunate enough to have played with many of the best players on CC. Most of them don't care that much about their points or rank.

[oVo]

to make a long story short.... I benched all of my starters and the other team won. This same team went on to face Japan in the little league world series final and lost by 2 runs. The funny thing is...

Funny thing... I saw the same made for TV movie.
and to make a long story short, that's not how the Little League World Series draw works.

[ViperOverLord]

I'm not against poaching as long as the system is the way it is. Chiefly, what I refer to is the idea that you can't put rank/point limits on who can join your games. Time and time again, CC has made the argument that it is so so the called weaker players won't be discouraged or limited. That's just feel goodery at its finest. These so called weaker players would be better served to find equitable play partners anyways and thus be motivated to move up the ranks and play stiffer competition. That's how it's done on Yahoo Hearts btw and it works out great.

If you're a colonel and you play a lieutenant then you put 33 points on the table vs. his/her 17 points. I ask, unless you're confident that you can win at at least a 70 percent clip,where is the motivation to not find players you feel more comfortable about beating (IE so called "poaching") or even to not foe players that you otherwise have no problem with? And the point discrepancy only worsens when you start talking brig/sergeant, general/private etc. Therefore, a player is inherently motivated to handpick games more closely if he/she wants to sustain his rank.

Look at the top 100 players. They're (almost) all playing multi games against each other, "manipulating situations", hand picking opponents, etc (generally laboring more while playing less games than they'd prefer to keep their score high). Most of us have not even played a handful of those Top 100 players 1 v 1 and yet we're fed the line that the system is the way it is to not discourage a sort of class system. Well I got news for cc, they created a class system whether they like it or not.

So I ask, what the hell does anyone care who the heck is "poaching" if that's all the top players are routinely doing in one fashion or another anyways? The argument needn't be about who is poaching but why the system is the way it is. I get that the convo turned from the system to individuals after cc routinely turned away change suggestions. But this societal pressure stuff is just deranged when you consider that the top players are largely hand picking their opponents in some manner anyways.

I mean who do you care that is poaching? GLG? Fine__ but what he's doing is legal and you're wasting your breath. You mad about some other guy in the top 100? (Well almost all of them are exclusive about who they play). You mad about some colonel that is that far down on the food chain that is hand picking games? So what. Get over it. Accept that the system needs changing. But stop coming here with some bleeding heart crap about right and wrong. People on CC have (limited) freedoms to choose their games/opponents. And that's how it should be. Deal with it.

The reality is that there would be less so called poaching and more match-ups in the public arena if there were classes of games allowed for public gaming. For instance 2500 plus point limits, 3000 point limits, etc. The fact is that the brigs are the ones that care enough to "poach" and play the system the way it needs to be played to sustain the high rank. But if you made this so called poaching systematic (allowing point limits on who can join games) then people would more freely play each other and be motivated to move up the ranks and stay in the rank (like in Yahoo Hearts).

[Gunn217]

A lot of gibberish that made my head hurt to read it. Good job. I don't know if you were addressing me or just the farming/ranching haters in general but don't assume you know what I'm about.

I don't give a shit about GLG or any of the other conquerors that manipulated their way to the top. I rarely look at the scoreboard. I don't really care about GLG or Blitz, or anyone else getting the rank. Conqueror means nothing. I don't sit around looking a people's games to see if they are doing the right thing or not. I was asking, in general, why do people want the high rank at any cost. I'm not mad, or upset, or anything. Just wondering what people think about it. I was hoping to get some feedback from some of the players that do it. I have, and I'm satisfied. They were pretty much what I thought they would be.

I'm not bitching about the system. I actually think it's an ok system. I have no problem with different ranks playing each other or the top 100 players hand picking their opponents and situations. It doesn't affect me one way or the other.

I love this site. I have no plans to boycot or send lack a PM raising hell about how the site is running. I joined so I could stay in touch with my college buddies and to have a hobby that was cheap. I'll always be a premium and I will never bitch that the system is broken. I think the only gripe I have is that the site doesn't support the add-ons...but for $25 a year I'll take what they give me. I would gladly pay more if they could hire a full time guy to keep all the cool addons running. Find Chipv and pay the guy!