Did Jesus Really Sacrifice All That Much?

[pimpdave]

It's Good Friday tomorrow and it's got me thinking. Since Jesus had the power to raise himself from the dead, it's not really a sacrifice for him to die.

What do you guys think?

[jimboston]

Well... assuming the story is 100% true (which is a big assumption in my view)... then I would say it was still a sacrifice.

I mean death itself must be painful... but the crucifiction was extremely painful.
-> Crown of Thorns
-> Heavy Lifting
-> Whipping
-> Dehydration
-> Blistering Sun
-> Falling to the Ground (3 Times!)
-> Nails through the hands and feet.
-> Sword in the gut.

That doesn't seem like a lot of fun to me.

[pimpdave]

Yeah but how do you know he didn't just numb himself to the pain. He's a god after all.

[jimboston]

Yeah but how do you know he didn't just numb himself to the pain. He's a god after all.

I don't.

The whole premise of my response was based on the statement "if what the Bible says is true". The Bible says he suffered. Hence...

[Army of GOD]

Dude, he's God/the son of God. I'm sure the pain meant nothing.

[jimboston]

Dude, he's God/the son of God. I'm sure the pain meant nothing.

Dude...

... assuming the story is 100% true...

Did you read what I wrote dude?

In the Bible, Dude, it says "he suffered on the cross". Hence...

[Army of GOD]

Dude, he's God/the son of God. I'm sure the pain meant nothing.

Dude...

... assuming the story is 100% true...

Did you read what I wrote dude?

In the Bible, Dude, it says "he suffered on the cross". Hence...

If I knew I was the son of God and would have eternal life, earthly pain would mean nothing to me.

[Army of GOD]

And other people in history have suffered more than him...he's a pusspuss

[Symmetry]

And other people in history have suffered more than him...he's a pusspuss

Perhaps take a brief look at Christian theology before you post again. I know this forum has kind of gone in to a free-for all in bigotry, but even if you don't believe in the guy, crucifixion ain't a cakewalk.

[Army of GOD]

And other people in history have suffered more than him...he's a pusspuss

Perhaps take a brief look at Christian theology before you post again. I know this forum has kind of gone in to a free-for all in bigotry, but even if you don't believe in the guy, crucifixion ain't a cakewalk.

I know it's not a cakewalk, but there are other forms of torture/execution that I would take crucifixion over. The Brazen bull being one.

[Iron Butterfly]

And other people in history have suffered more than him...he's a pusspuss

Perhaps take a brief look at Christian theology before you post again. I know this forum has kind of gone in to a free-for all in bigotry, but even if you don't believe in the guy, crucifixion ain't a cakewalk.

I know it's not a cakewalk, but there are other forms of torture/execution that I would take crucifixion over. The Brazen bull being one.

The brazen bull...I couldn't imagine dieing like that. Being fried alive argggg

[Army of GOD]

oh, and it's different knowing you're the son of God vs. being some random person being executed.

[Ray Rider]

It's Good Friday tomorrow and it's got me thinking. Since Jesus had the power to raise himself from the dead, it's not really a sacrifice for him to die.

What do you guys think?

Let me get this straight: you're saying that someone who's "living the life" with not a care in the world, completely free from pain, with every wish fulfilled, the most powerful person in the universe with millions of angels doing his bidding; that person taking the time to become one of the humblest forms of his creation, carrying out good works (feeding the hungry, healing the sick, raising the dead) throughout his time on earth, accepting (for the sake of you and me) the unjust punishment of one of the worst, most painfully-prolonged executions conceivable at the time carried out by the very people he came to save; you're saying that action isn't a sacrifice??

Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners and therefore enemies of God, Christ died for us.
-from Romans 5:7-8

Yeah but how do you know he didn't just numb himself to the pain. He's a god after all.

Either you take the Biblical account at face value and he did suffer a massive amount of torture and pain (watch The Passion of the Christ if you want to get a picture of it); or you choose not to believe it in which case the question is meaningless since you don't believe it happened anyway.

Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.

But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he opened not his mouth.

Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.
-from Isaiah 53, written around 750 BC

[john9blue]

"into your hands i commit my spirit"

if he could raise himself from the dead, then why would he commit his spirit to anybody?

[BigBallinStalin]

"into your hands i commit my spirit"

if he could raise himself from the dead, then why would he commit his spirit to anybody?

He respects the law of contracts. It's good to have these things in verbal form, then written down centuries later!

[BigBallinStalin]

It's Good Friday tomorrow and it's got me thinking. Since Jesus had the power to raise himself from the dead, it's not really a sacrifice for him to die.

What do you guys think?

Let me get this straight: you're saying that someone who's "living the life" with not a care in the world, completely free from pain, with every wish fulfilled, the most powerful person in the universe with millions of angels doing his bidding; that person taking the time to become one of the humblest forms of his creation, carrying out good works (feeding the hungry, healing the sick, raising the dead) throughout his time on earth, accepting (for the sake of you and me) the unjust punishment of one of the worst, most painfully-prolonged executions conceivable at the time carried out by the very people he came to save; you're saying that action isn't a sacrifice??

Too bad he didn't stick around long enough!

But hey, if the other divinely inspired accounts are true, then we got Jesus v2.0, Jesus v3.0, etc. in the form of Muhammed, St. Joan of Arc, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Hong Xiuquan (the younger brother of Christ), etc., etc.!

[CreepersWiener]

Well, this thread is titled "Did Jesus Really Sacrifice All That Much?"...Jesus didn't sacrifice anything. He is called "The Lamb of God"...if you understand what that means, then you will realize that it was God the Father who sacrificed His only Son. The Son had no power except that which the Father gave to him. Jesus just couldn't magically jump off the cross. Why? Because when Jesus died He said:

Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"
Matthew 27:45-47 (in Context) Matthew 27 (Whole Chapter)

Also, what Jesus said in the Gospels:

Luke 22:42

21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

42saying, "Father, if Thou be willing, remove this cup from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Thine be done."


Now let us see what Jesus said when he was captured:

John 19:10-11 (21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

John 19:10-11

21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

10Then said Pilate unto Him, "Speakest thou not unto me? Knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?"


11Jesus answered, "Thou couldest have no power at all against Me, unless it were given thee from above. Therefore he that delivered Me unto thee hath the greater sin."

So, Jesus claimed not to sacrifice ANYTHING. Jesus WAS THE SACRIFICE.

It was God the Father who sacrificed His Son, not Jesus sacrificing Himself.

I just wanted to make that point.

[Night Strike]

Although Creepers points are true, it is also true to say that Jesus did sacrifice. For all of eternity, he had been a perfect being in perfect communion with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. While on the cross, God the Father took all the sins of the world and put them into the body of His own perfect son. At that point, Jesus was no longer perfect and was no longer in communion with God the Father. Jesus gave up that communion in order to provide a path of salvation for us. Although he knew that he would rise again on the 3rd day, he also knew that the relatively short separation from God the Father would be a major sacrifice. But he was willing to do it so that we the created could have eternal life.

[jgordon1111]

If you know that your death is temporary, then the sacrafice isnt as much as if he knew that to save mankind it would be permanent.

But he lost his faith,it was already qouted once but a refresher "my God why hast thou forsaken me".

To me it seems at the end he wasnt really sure of the outcome.

So there is something amiss with the story it would seem.

But just my opinion not meant to belittle or antagonize anyone of faith. Your faith is what keeps you going and raises you up hold on to it.

[squishyg]

Yes.

p.s. scaphism pwns brazen bull

[Night Strike]

If you know that your death is temporary, then the sacrafice isnt as much as if he knew that to save mankind it would be permanent.

But he lost his faith,it was already qouted once but a refresher "my God why hast thou forsaken me".

To me it seems at the end he wasnt really sure of the outcome.

So there is something amiss with the story it would seem.

But just my opinion not meant to belittle or antagonize anyone of faith. Your faith is what keeps you going and raises you up hold on to it.

Jesus said that quote because it was the first time he had ever experienced separation from God the Father. It was the first time he experienced what every other human has experienced due to the effects of sin. Jesus was fully God and fully man, but although he knew that sin entailed separation from God the Father, he had never experienced it.

[jgordon1111]

If you know that your death is temporary, then the sacrafice isnt as much as if he knew that to save mankind it would be permanent.

But he lost his faith,it was already qouted once but a refresher "my God why hast thou forsaken me".

To me it seems at the end he wasnt really sure of the outcome.

So there is something amiss with the story it would seem.

But just my opinion not meant to belittle or antagonize anyone of faith. Your faith is what keeps you going and raises you up hold on to it.

Jesus said that quote because it was the first time he had ever experienced separation from God the Father. It was the first time he experienced what every other human has experienced due to the effects of sin. Jesus was fully God and fully man, but although he knew that sin entailed separation from God the Father, he had never experienced it.

NS it is a contradiction to the entire story,beginning to end jesus son of God/Jesus God on earth/ the holy trinity etc. How can he forsake himself?

[Night Strike]

If you know that your death is temporary, then the sacrafice isnt as much as if he knew that to save mankind it would be permanent.

But he lost his faith,it was already qouted once but a refresher "my God why hast thou forsaken me".

To me it seems at the end he wasnt really sure of the outcome.

So there is something amiss with the story it would seem.

But just my opinion not meant to belittle or antagonize anyone of faith. Your faith is what keeps you going and raises you up hold on to it.

Jesus said that quote because it was the first time he had ever experienced separation from God the Father. It was the first time he experienced what every other human has experienced due to the effects of sin. Jesus was fully God and fully man, but although he knew that sin entailed separation from God the Father, he had never experienced it.

NS it is a contradiction to the entire story,beginning to end jesus son of God/Jesus God on earth/ the holy trinity etc. How can he forsake himself?

Because God is Three in One. All three parts are equally God, but they all have different personalities and different roles. God the Son took on sin, so it was impossible for him to be in communion with the other two parts while he contained sin.

[BigBallinStalin]

So Christians worship three gods?

Maybe with some Mary on the side?

[Ray Rider]

"into your hands i commit my spirit"

if he could raise himself from the dead, then why would he commit his spirit to anybody?

He respects the law of contracts. It's good to have these things in verbal form, then written down centuries later!

"In no other case is the interval of time between the composition of the book and the date of the earliest extant manuscripts so short as in that of the New Testament. The books of the New Testament were written in the latter part of the first century; the earliest extant manuscripts (trifling scraps excepted) are of the fourth century--say from 250 to 300 years later. This may sound a considerable interval, but it is nothing to that which parts most of the great classical authors from their earliest manuscripts. We believe that we have in all essentials an accurate text of the seven extant plays of Sophocles; yet the earliest substantial manuscript upon which it is based was written more than 1400 years after the poet's death."
-Sir Frederic G. Kenyon, former director and principal librarian of the British Museum

"To be skeptical of the resultant text of the New Testament books is to allow all of classical antiquity to slip into obscurity, for no documents of the ancient period are as well attested bibliographically as the New Testament."
-John Warwick Montgomery, who holds 11 degrees and has written 235 works

It's Good Friday tomorrow and it's got me thinking. Since Jesus had the power to raise himself from the dead, it's not really a sacrifice for him to die.

What do you guys think?

Let me get this straight: you're saying that someone who's "living the life" with not a care in the world, completely free from pain, with every wish fulfilled, the most powerful person in the universe with millions of angels doing his bidding; that person taking the time to become one of the humblest forms of his creation, carrying out good works (feeding the hungry, healing the sick, raising the dead) throughout his time on earth, accepting (for the sake of you and me) the unjust punishment of one of the worst, most painfully-prolonged executions conceivable at the time carried out by the very people he came to save; you're saying that action isn't a sacrifice??

Too bad he didn't stick around long enough!

But hey, if the other divinely inspired accounts are true, then we got Jesus v2.0, Jesus v3.0, etc. in the form of Muhammed, St. Joan of Arc, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Hong Xiuquan (the younger brother of Christ), etc., etc.!

Examine the facts. The choice isn't necessarily between all religions being right or all religions being wrong.