Hope you didn't rack up too much debt at college

[mrswdk]

Ernst & Young Removes Degree Classification From Entry Criteria As There’s ‘No Evidence’ University Equals Success

Ernst & Young, one of the UK’s biggest graduate recruiters, has announced it will be removing the degree classification from its entry criteria, saying there is “no evidence” success at university correlates with achievement in later life.

In an unprecendented move, the accountancy firm is scrapping its policy of requiring a 2:1 and the equivalent of three B grades at A-level in order to open opportunities for talented individuals “regardless of their background”.

Maggie Stilwell, EY’s managing partner for talent, said the company would use online assessments to judge the potential of applicants.

“Academic qualifications will still be taken into account and indeed remain an important consideration when assessing candidates as a whole, but will no longer act as a barrier to getting a foot in the door,” she said.

“Our own internal research of over 400 graduates found that screening students based on academic performance alone was too blunt an approach to recruitment.

“It found no evidence to conclude that previous success in higher education correlated with future success in subsequent professional qualifications undertaken.”

The company offers 200 graduate-level jobs each year, making it the fifth largest recruiter of graduates in the UK. The changes will come into force in 2016.

Earlier this year, PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) scrapped using UCAS points as entry criteria for its graduate scheme. The audit firm believes placing too much emphasis on the scores will mean employers may miss out on key talent from disadvantaged backgrounds, who can perform less well at school.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/01 ... 32590.html

[DoomYoshi]

This is excellent news. I have lived on the streets and been to college, and there is no difference in the intelligence level at either place, except at the extremes (the really smart people are generally in college and the really stupid generally on the streets). The majority of college kids do the same stupid shit that kids on the street do. The difference is that one group ends up with a degree and jobs and the other ends up with alimony payments and a drug habit.

[Dukasaur]

This is excellent news. I have lived on the streets and been to college, and there is no difference in the intelligence level at either place, except at the extremes (the really smart people are generally in college and the really stupid generally on the streets). The majority of college kids do the same stupid shit that kids on the street do. The difference is that one group ends up with a degree and jobs and the other ends up with alimony payments and a drug habit.

Yeah, pretty much.

My friend the pharmacist has now run six pharmacies over the course of his career and probably hired 100 pharmacists. He's done his own study and found absolutely no correlation between their marks at school and their real-world performance. Of course they all have pharmacy degrees as a matter of legal necessity, but other than that they're all over the map. The one year he thought himself lucky to recruit the most decorated graduate from that year's U of T crop. She was #1 in her class and had won pretty much every possible award on the way. In six months he had to ditch her. She was completely useless and would take 20 minutes to perform a task anyone else could do in 5. The obsessive perfectionism that won her awards in school was completely inapplicable in a real-world scenario.

[notyou2]

Hire the third or fourth best of the class, not the first. Most likely the first has zero real world skills.

[KoolBak]

I didn't learn a fucking thing in college (and it was a very expensive private secular school, sister to Notre Dame)....the stupid degree got me the start of my career and I excelled due to the person I am due to my parents....period. Before I was a belt monkey, of course....

My eldest son tried two terms of college and hated it and didnt want to wait into his 40's to be an actual architect....he bagged it (saving us a shitload of money) and is taking his real estate license course and gonna be an agent / broker, which simply requires one to be an excellent communicator, motivated and intelligent....fact that he's damn good looking will help too ;o)

My wife always complains that she didnt go to college and how much more she'd make if she had....she fucking makes a good salary and a degree wouldnt make a bit of difference.....

Good for those employers.....

[mrswdk]

fact that he's damn good looking will help too ;o)

[riskllama]

creepy.

[DoomYoshi]

those shoes

[KoolBak]

[Lucky Se7en]

I graduated from college, got a better job than my friends who didn't go to school and I use what I learned from my program every day at work...seems like I'm a minority. I guess it varies in different fields/industries though.

[Symmetry]

I graduated from college, got a better job than my friends who didn't go to school and I use what I learned from my program every day at work...seems like I'm a minority. I guess it varies in different fields/industries though.

You're right it's still a better idea to have a degree, especially, as you point out, to have one in a field that has a professional application. My degrees have mostly been in English and History, and even without the direct knowledge, the skills learned are useful.

I've recently been doing volunteer work with asylum seekers in my area, and it's amazing how much difference a degree makes. It's not simply the knowledge, but the ability to explain and use it, and the skills associated.

Soft skills are often less marketable, but more transferable.

[DoomYoshi]

I graduated from college, got a better job than my friends who didn't go to school and I use what I learned from my program every day at work...seems like I'm a minority. I guess it varies in different fields/industries though.

You're right it's still a better idea to have a degree, especially, as you point out, to have one in a field that has a professional application. My degrees have mostly been in English and History, and even without the direct knowledge, the skills learned are useful.

I've recently been doing volunteer work with asylum seekers in my area, and it's amazing how much difference a degree makes. It's not simply the knowledge, but the ability to explain and use it, and the skills associated.

Soft skills are often less marketable, but more transferable.

Anything you can learn in college, you can learn by yourself; probably more effectively and quicker if you are focused.

[Symmetry]

I graduated from college, got a better job than my friends who didn't go to school and I use what I learned from my program every day at work...seems like I'm a minority. I guess it varies in different fields/industries though.

You're right it's still a better idea to have a degree, especially, as you point out, to have one in a field that has a professional application. My degrees have mostly been in English and History, and even without the direct knowledge, the skills learned are useful.

I've recently been doing volunteer work with asylum seekers in my area, and it's amazing how much difference a degree makes. It's not simply the knowledge, but the ability to explain and use it, and the skills associated.

Soft skills are often less marketable, but more transferable.

Anything you can learn in college, you can learn by yourself; probably more effectively and quicker if you are focused.

I actually agree, but, as with all things, a carefully constructed and supervised course is generally best. There will always be people with the discipline and/or environment to learn themselves, and oddly enough they tend to be the ones who learn best from colleges and universities too, but the desire to learn is the key in any path.

[mrswdk]

DY is right.I've been involved with apprenticeship programs in the UK before and in doing so spoken to countless people working in companies in fields like PR, marketing, media etc. who've hired 18 year-old apprentices and found them to be just as capable as 21/22 year-old fresh graduates they'd hired for the same positions. Same at my company: the most recent junior hires we took on are both recent grads from Oxford and Cambridge, and we started them on work that I'd feel comfortable giving to an 18 year-old gap year intern. Those same people could have joined us straight from high school and would have been just as capable.

The only reason to do a degree is if you will learn things directly applicable to a specific job or sector in that degree (e.g. medicine, engineering). If all you're going to do is spend 3-4 years writing theoretical essays, you're better off skipping uni and just learning on the job.

[Symmetry]

DY is right.I've been involved with apprenticeship programs in the UK before and in doing so spoken to countless people working in companies in fields like PR, marketing, media etc. who've hired 18 year-old apprentices and found them to be just as capable as 21/22 year-old fresh graduates they'd hired for the same positions. Same at my company: the most recent junior hires we took on are both recent grads from Oxford and Cambridge, and we started them on work that I'd feel comfortable giving to an 18 year-old gap year intern. Those same people could have joined us straight from high school and would have been just as capable.

The only reason to do a degree is if you will learn things directly applicable to a specific job or sector in that degree (e.g. medicine, engineering). If all you're going to do is spend 3-4 years writing theoretical essays, you're better off skipping uni and just learning on the job.

Apprenticeships are great when they work, but they're only comparable to degrees that offer similar skills.

Unfortunately, they are rare. That genuinely sucks- they are difficult, and suffer from some of the elitism and nepotism you'd expect.

Even for those who can't find an apprenticeship, degrees are still better.

[mrswdk]

Apprenticeships are great when they work, but they're only comparable to degrees that offer similar skills.

Yes, an apprenticeship and a degree that offers the same skills as an apprenticeship are comparable. The key difference is that one takes 3 years and costs the student 45k+, the other lasts about a year and the student gets paid while undertaking it.

Your post doesn't really make much sense. I assume you've been at the pub tonight.

[Symmetry]

Apprenticeships are great when they work, but they're only comparable to degrees that offer similar skills.

Yes, an apprenticeship and a degree that offers the same skills as an apprenticeship are comparable. The key difference is that one takes 3 years and costs the student 45k+, the other lasts about a year and the student gets paid while undertaking it.

Your post doesn't really make much sense. I assume you've been at the pub tonight.

The key is that apprenticeships are rare. Great, but rare. They aren't real alternatives for most people

[Lucky Se7en]

One thing I've noticed is that there is a HUGE difference between the competency of the engineering interns we hire and our new hires who are very close in age. I'm guessing part of it is psychological because one is more inclined to go into it with the mentality of a summer job while the other is coming into it with the mentality of taking the first step into a career. Regardless of the mentality though, I feel like something tends to click around junior-senior year for those students. I also feel like there are certain schools where it doesn't click for their students nearly as much as it should.

[Symmetry]

One thing I've noticed is that there is a HUGE difference between the competency of the engineering interns we hire and our new hires who are very close in age. I'm guessing part of it is psychological because one is more inclined to go into it with the mentality of a summer job while the other is coming into it with the mentality of taking the first step into a career. Regardless of the mentality though, I feel like something tends to click around junior-senior year for those students. I also feel like there are certain schools where it doesn't click for their students nearly as much as it should.

I'd say there's a lot of difference between unis and the qualities of degrees offered. While I was doing my Master's degree I had to look an American PhD thesis that would have failed to get a decent master's degree in the UK. It was very clearly a problem of the school, as top level schooling is equal, if not better in the US.

[mrswdk]

Apprenticeships are great when they work, but they're only comparable to degrees that offer similar skills.

Yes, an apprenticeship and a degree that offers the same skills as an apprenticeship are comparable. The key difference is that one takes 3 years and costs the student 45k+, the other lasts about a year and the student gets paid while undertaking it.

Your post doesn't really make much sense. I assume you've been at the pub tonight.

The key is that apprenticeships are rare. Great, but rare. They aren't real alternatives for most people

That doesn't make them worse. It just means there aren't enough of them.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Apprenticeships are great when they work, but they're only comparable to degrees that offer similar skills.

Yes, an apprenticeship and a degree that offers the same skills as an apprenticeship are comparable. The key difference is that one takes 3 years and costs the student 45k+, the other lasts about a year and the student gets paid while undertaking it.

Your post doesn't really make much sense. I assume you've been at the pub tonight.

The key is that apprenticeships are rare. Great, but rare. They aren't real alternatives for most people

That doesn't make them worse. It just means there aren't enough of them.

Its also anecdotal evidence which gets reconfirmed constantly, whilst being false.

[mrswdk]

Unanimous opinions of real employers and skills councils > speculative OT comments

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Unanimous opinions of real employers and skills councils > speculative OT comments

In theory, but sadly one is well known thebother is not.

[mrswdk]

I don't know what that's supposed to mean. I'm going to take it as your agreement that apprenticeships are better than degrees.

[DoomYoshi]

Um... a bunch of Brits sitting around talking about apprentices... did the riots of 1590 teach you nothing? British people* are supposed to hate apprentices.

*By people I mean the land-owning aristocrats and gentlemen, as in, actual human beings.