Americans please explain something

Plantagenet · Post by **Plantagenet** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:59 am

I saw General Petraeus on TV last night, being questioned by a House committee and understand he is today to appear before a corresponding Senate committee.

Isn't this rather like asking a chef to come and explain his recipes to a herd of pigs?

btownmeggy · Post by **btownmeggy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:51 am

Hey, I like your way of thinking! Let's give aggressive, not-too-bright guys GIGANTIC ARMIES with lots of DEADLY WAR MACHINES and then just let them do whatever they want, without having to answer to ANYONE!

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:56 am

I don't know much about this. However, it is no doubt another ploy to embarrass the Bush administration yet again. You have to give them credit, the Dems are persistent if nothing else.... they continue to undermine our troops and this administration no matter what.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:06 am

jay_a2j wrote:I don't know much about this. However, it is no doubt another ploy to embarrass the Bush administration yet again. You have to give them credit, the Dems are persistent if nothing else.... they continue to undermine our troops and this administration no matter what.

Good for them

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:15 am

Our Generals are actually very very very smart. You don't get to be one otherwise. They may not know how to talk to the stupid congressmen. It's like asking someone that only speaks Chinese to teach English class. Generals just don't speak the same language as congressmen.

So to answer the question, it's bollocks.

Nephilim · Post by **Nephilim** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:39 am

btownmeggy wrote:Hey, I like your way of thinking! Let's give aggressive, not-too-bright guys GIGANTIC ARMIES with lots of DEADLY WAR MACHINES and then just let them do whatever they want, without having to answer to ANYONE!

sustaining your sparkling rep w/ every comment, imo......

jay_a2j wrote:I don't know much about this. However, it is no doubt another ploy to embarrass the Bush administration yet again. You have to give them credit, the Dems are persistent if nothing else.... they continue to undermine our troops and this administration no matter what.

while you continue to prove your sycophantic ignorance w/ every post.....the administration doesn't need any help. you still don't realize that this is the worst president the US has ever had? get some help, jay, and please don't have kids.....

Coleman wrote:Our Generals are actually very very very smart. You don't get to be one otherwise. They may not know how to talk to the stupid congressmen. It's like asking someone that only speaks Chinese to teach English class. Generals just don't speak the same language as congressmen.

So to answer the question, it's bollocks.

you're dad's in the military, rite? is he an officer? i'm betting so.....i love your logic, btw. only smart guys can be generals, but congressmen are stupid! you're a walking argument against democracy.....

anyways, Plantagenet, i can give at least one reason for this set of talks. the dems won a huge round of elections last fall, mainly b/c the bush admin/repub party is botching everything it touches and fighting a very unpopular war. so the dem-controlled congress has a pretty clear mandate from US citizens to question bush's execution of this war. thus, his lead general is being questioned by representatives in charge of military oversight. bush actually promised this report on his surge plan.

a better question is, does this actually mean anything? i doubt it...it's really just posturing by the dem congressmen so they can say that they did something about this war. nothing will change. and i don't think your chef/pig analogy really works. these are all intelligent people w/ the capability to understand what's going on. the problem is, they are all just posing for the masses, w/ bush and his generals fooling idiots like jay, and the congressmen not really fooling anyone but we can't do shit about it. this country sucks

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:55 am

Nephilim wrote:
btownmeggy wrote:Hey, I like your way of thinking! Let's give aggressive, not-too-bright guys GIGANTIC ARMIES with lots of DEADLY WAR MACHINES and then just let them do whatever they want, without having to answer to ANYONE!
sustaining your sparkling rep w/ every comment, imo......

jay_a2j wrote:I don't know much about this. However, it is no doubt another ploy to embarrass the Bush administration yet again. You have to give them credit, the Dems are persistent if nothing else.... they continue to undermine our troops and this administration no matter what.
while you continue to prove your sycophantic ignorance w/ every post.....the administration doesn't need any help. you still don't realize that this is the worst president the US has ever had? get some help, jay, and please don't have kids.....

Coleman wrote:Our Generals are actually very very very smart. You don't get to be one otherwise. They may not know how to talk to the stupid congressmen. It's like asking someone that only speaks Chinese to teach English class. Generals just don't speak the same language as congressmen.

So to answer the question, it's bollocks.
you're dad's in the military, rite? is he an officer? i'm betting so.....i love your logic, btw. only smart guys can be generals, but congressmen are stupid! you're a walking argument against democracy.....

anyways, Plantagenet, i can give at least one reason for this set of talks. the dems won a huge round of elections last fall, mainly b/c the bush admin/repub party is botching everything it touches and fighting a very unpopular war. so the dem-controlled congress has a pretty clear mandate from US citizens to question bush's execution of this war. thus, his lead general is being questioned by representatives in charge of military oversight. bush actually promised this report on his surge plan.

a better question is, does this actually mean anything? i doubt it...it's really just posturing by the dem congressmen so they can say that they did something about this war. nothing will change. and i don't think your chef/pig analogy really works. these are all intelligent people w/ the capability to understand what's going on. the problem is, they are all just posing for the masses, w/ bush and his generals fooling idiots like jay, and the congressmen not really fooling anyone but we can't do shit about it. this country sucks

Let me guess.... you have a swastika tattooed on you upper arm? The Dems are an embarrassment to the country (at least the idiots in Washington). The surge is working... DESPITE Schumer's anti-military comments! Wake up sheeple! I can't believe what the American people let the Democrats get away with! If they were Republicans they would be unemployed.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:58 am

jay_a2j wrote:Let me guess.... you have a swastika tattooed on you upper arm?

Godwin's Law, you automatically lose.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:15 am

Nephilim wrote: you're a walking argument against democracy.....

this country sucks

I rest my case.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:22 am

jay_a2j wrote:
Nephilim wrote: you're a walking argument against democracy.....

this country sucks

I rest my case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

I rest mine.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:31 am

vtmarik wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
Nephilim wrote: you're a walking argument against democracy.....

this country sucks

I rest my case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

I rest mine.

Ok, so maybe the tattoo is closer to this:

heavycola · Post by **heavycola** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:42 am

jay i hope you understand the difference between a nazi and a communist, because it's quite important.

Look, all tribalism aside -

how do you know the surge is 'working'? Because the government tells you so. Who says it isn't working? the democrats. You take at face value what one side says and disregard the other just as easily - is being far right of centre or a little right of centre really the difference between being an upholder of truth and a compulsive liar?
They all have agendas - even your courageous, maligned, heroic leader. You do yourself a disservice by ignoring that.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:48 am

jay_a2j wrote:it is no doubt another ploy to embarrass the Bush administration yet again.

It doesn't really matter because as we ALL know, Bush is very capable of embarassing himself without any outside help.

He's an absolute clown who is running our fine country straight into the ground.

By the way....have we caught BIN LADEN yet? The guy who actually ATTACKED US? "Dead or Alive" and all that posturing cowboy bullshit? No. We lose our boys daily while the guy responsible walks free...laughing at our stupidity.

And Jay...when backed into a corner yet again, calling everyone "Nazi's" because they don't agree with this joke of a "war" doesn't bolster your position very much.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:53 am

Backglass wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:it is no doubt another ploy to embarrass the Bush administration yet again.
It doesn't really matter because as we ALL know, Bush is very capable of embarassing himself without any outside help. He's an absolute clown who is running our fine country straight into the ground.

By the way....have we caught BIN LADEN yet? The guy who actually ATTACKED US? "Dead or Alive" and all that posturing cowboy bullshit? No. We lose our boys daily while the guy responsible walks free...laughing at our stupidity.

And Jay...when backed into a corner yet again, calling everyone "Nazi's" because they don't agree with this joke of a "war" doesn't bolster your position very much.

Have you seen the latest video? All he did was dub his voice over an older tape. He's phoning in his hatred for America now.

Let's get him. I'm sure he'd be a much more impressive catch/kill than the 50 or so Number 2 guys we've nailed.

Nephilim · Post by **Nephilim** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:12 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
Nephilim wrote: you're a walking argument against democracy.....

this country sucks

I rest my case.

ummm, i hate stupid people and oppression.....how does that make me a nazi?

......jay, please kill yourself before you reach spawning age......

Plantagenet · Post by **Plantagenet** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:34 pm

I'm sorry - I didn't mean to start a fight about whether the war was/is a good idea; or whether "we" are winning it... I just don't see how it makes sense for a professional soldier to be required to explain himself to the LEGISLATURE.

After all, what does a woman who couldn't even sew up a small-potatoes crooked land deal in Arkansas know about military strategy? She may be pretty good at devising clever schemes to reform American health care but.... oh, no, wait.... she sucked at that as well!

Titanic · Post by **Titanic** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:22 pm

vtmarik wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Let me guess.... you have a swastika tattooed on you upper arm?
Godwin's Law, you automatically lose.

Jay, this is when he originally referred to it. You lose.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:52 pm

Plantagenet wrote:Isn't this rather like asking a chef to come and explain his recipes to a herd of pigs?

Yes, but it's a herd of pigs that approves his pay raises! And his budget!

Sometimes you have to kiss the pigs. If only they stop waddling in the mud before you come and take a bath for once!

It's deja vu all over again. The military had a hard time with congress in WWII and even General Washington could barely get respect from the Continental Congress. ("Valley Forge is a quagmire I tell you!")

Whiteberry · Post by **Whiteberry** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:55 am

Nephilim wrote: you still don't realize that this is the worst president the US has ever had?

While George Bush is not the smartest President in the world and he has made some large mistakes, calling him the worst president in US history is simply not correct. Did you forget Jimmy Carter? Or are you too young to remember this moron? I am not a George Bush fan by all means, but he is no where close to the incompetence of Jimmy Carter.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:59 am

Whiteberry wrote:
Nephilim wrote: you still don't realize that this is the worst president the US has ever had?
While George Bush is not the smartest President in the world and he has made some large mistakes, calling him the worst president in US history is simply not correct. Did you forget Jimmy Carter? Or are you too young to remember this moron? I am not a George Bush fan by all means, but he is no where close to the incompetence of Jimmy Carter.

I think the point is that Carter didn't involve the US in a potentially decades long slog in two countries leading to massive loss of life as well as human rights abuses, although I believe he did involve himself somewhat in Afghanistan as an anti-soviet policy (can't remember much, only studied the period as an undergrad in my first year). His mis-management of America may have been a major issue, but Bush's mis-management of foreign policy potentially affects more lives and for his legacy is a longer and more bloody one. Bush is throwing these lives away with apparent abandon, whereas Carter has a record of humanitarian work which earned him a Nobel Peace Prize in 2002.

Carter may be the worst president the US ever had, but Bush is the worst president the World ever had!

Carebian Knight · Post by **Carebian Knight** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:09 am

How can Bush be the worst president the world has ever had? The world never had a president. If you think that a president that won a nobel peace prize but didn't look after his own country is better, then you really need some help.

OnlyAmbrose · Post by **OnlyAmbrose** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:53 am

Nephilim wrote:
Coleman wrote:Our Generals are actually very very very smart. You don't get to be one otherwise. They may not know how to talk to the stupid congressmen. It's like asking someone that only speaks Chinese to teach English class. Generals just don't speak the same language as congressmen.

So to answer the question, it's bollocks.
you're dad's in the military, rite? is he an officer? i'm betting so.....i love your logic, btw. only smart guys can be generals, but congressmen are stupid! you're a walking argument against democracy.....

Advancement in the military (especially to the point of generalship) and advancement in politics are two very different things.

Nephilim · Post by **Nephilim** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:53 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Nephilim wrote:
Coleman wrote:Our Generals are actually very very very smart. You don't get to be one otherwise. They may not know how to talk to the stupid congressmen. It's like asking someone that only speaks Chinese to teach English class. Generals just don't speak the same language as congressmen.

So to answer the question, it's bollocks.
you're dad's in the military, rite? is he an officer? i'm betting so.....i love your logic, btw. only smart guys can be generals, but congressmen are stupid! you're a walking argument against democracy.....
Advancement in the military (especially to the point of generalship) and advancement in politics are two very different things.

great point....except it's not.....

and for whiteberry: of course, all we have here are our opinions. there's really no such thing as "the worst president ever," b/c determining such a title is a subjective and unprovable endeavor. however, i'd wager a shitload of money that no reputable presidential historian would put Carter in the bottom ten of US presidents. first off, no scandals in his admin. but of most importance, name me one Carter mistake/policy that the US is still paying for. imo, Carter is the victim of a whole bunch of rhetoric. yes, he gave away the Canal (admirable, imo) and there was an energy crisis and terrible inflation during his term. however, these things aren't nearly enough to label him the worst ever, or even one of the worst.

bush however, has screwed us in innumerable ways. i'll catalogue at least some of these if i must, but if anyone out there can't see them for him/herself, then arguing w/ such a one is probably pointless to begin with.....

history will tell if he is really one of the worst, and all i'm saying is i think people will be saying so in 25+ years.....

Tyr · Post by **Tyr** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:49 pm

Nephilim wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Nephilim wrote:
Coleman wrote:Our Generals are actually very very very smart. You don't get to be one otherwise. They may not know how to talk to the stupid congressmen. It's like asking someone that only speaks Chinese to teach English class. Generals just don't speak the same language as congressmen.

So to answer the question, it's bollocks.
you're dad's in the military, rite? is he an officer? i'm betting so.....i love your logic, btw. only smart guys can be generals, but congressmen are stupid! you're a walking argument against democracy.....
Advancement in the military (especially to the point of generalship) and advancement in politics are two very different things.
great point....except it's not.....

and for whiteberry: of course, all we have here are our opinions. there's really no such thing as "the worst president ever," b/c determining such a title is a subjective and unprovable endeavor. however, i'd wager a shitload of money that no reputable presidential historian would put Carter in the bottom ten of US presidents. first off, no scandals in his admin. but of most importance, name me one Carter mistake/policy that the US is still paying for. imo, Carter is the victim of a whole bunch of rhetoric. yes, he gave away the Canal (admirable, imo) and there was an energy crisis and terrible inflation during his term. however, these things aren't nearly enough to label him the worst ever, or even one of the worst.

bush however, has screwed us in innumerable ways. i'll catalogue at least some of these if i must, but if anyone out there can't see them for him/herself, then arguing w/ such a one is probably pointless to begin with.....

history will tell if he is really one of the worst, and all i'm saying is i think people will be saying so in 25+ years.....

i can give you one that is directly related to the topic. whow as it that said he got the us invilved in afghanistan. Carters and others mismanagement of middle eastern foreign policy has reached a culmination with the iraqi and afghan wars. look up american involvement in afghanistan and you will find which president started us in afghanistan. Cold War foriegn poilicy has come backa nd bit us in the assand bush takes the heat. im not a big bush fan but you cant blame the guy for continuing the mistakes of his predecessors

DangerBoy · Post by **DangerBoy** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:10 pm

btownmeggy wrote:Hey, I like your way of thinking! Let's give aggressive, not-too-bright guys GIGANTIC ARMIES with lots of DEADLY WAR MACHINES and then just let them do whatever they want, without having to answer to ANYONE!

Huh? It's been shown that George W. Bush's SAT score was 1206. That translates to an IQ of around 125-129 depending on which conversion method you use. Disagree on the war if you want, but can you just make a point without being personal?

Americans please explain something

Americans please explain something

Re: Americans please explain something