So, my question is basically what the topic is: what would be your ideal government?
It can be an existing government, or you can make it up. Try to keep it realistic though. For example, don't say that you want a government where no one is corrupt and everyone agrees on everything and they all lived happily ever after.
You can make your explanation as brief as you want, but if you are going to post it here, remember, not everyone wants to scroll past a 5000 word essay.
Everyone seems to complain about politicians or the way a government works, but they don't come up with a viable alternative. I am curious as to what other people would like. I will give my opinion later (saving it as a way to hopefully get the thread back on track if it gets derailed).
set parameters on the size of the society in question in my opinion, id do very different things if i was managing a resource rich modern nation-state as opposed to a hypothetical, small scale substience farming village.
I would immediately get rid of most of the population on the planet. That would be priority number one. Bring the population to a more manageable size, like around 500 million.
Then I would genetically splice bio-nanotech into wheat, corn, and rice. Then I could keep track of everybody from space.
That's about it for the most part...all problems solved.
Army of GOD wrote:This thread is now about my large penis
The issue with your parameters is that most government philosophies are based on that fact: that we all get along and live happily ever after. They basically left it open to either living happily ever after with a dictator or no government at all...
In terms of making my own... Let's see...
Lots of government control over the economy. Gotta make sure capitalist greed isn't creeping in there anyway. Socialized health care done right. Gotta train a lot of good doctors so waiting times are preferable non-existent. And lots of family doctors as well, to keep ER's free to handle real emergencies. Public schools will be well funded, religious and private schools will not be funded at all, but they may give out a diploma if they meet the standards. Post-secondary will be free for everybody, once. However, price caps will be put on to prevent schools having outrageous prices as they do now. Lots of other nice social services, such as welfare and food banks and such. Gay marriage is fine, legalization of marijuana...
Thats good for now...
In heaven... Everything is fine, in heaven... Everything is fine, in heaven... Everything is fine... You got your things, and I've got mine.
got tonkaed wrote:set parameters on the size of the society in question in my opinion, id do very different things if i was managing a resource rich modern nation-state as opposed to a hypothetical, small scale substience farming village.
That's a good point. You can explain the size of the society in your post, because I am looking for any type of government.f you want a standard though, then I guess it can be.... 6 million people with enough resources to sustain itself but not be an economic super power?
hecter wrote:The issue with your parameters is that most government philosophies are based on that fact: that we all get along and live happily ever after. They basically left it open to either living happily ever after with a dictator or no government at all...
In terms of making my own... Let's see...
Lots of government control over the economy. Gotta make sure capitalist greed isn't creeping in there anyway. Socialized health care done right. Gotta train a lot of good doctors so waiting times are preferable non-existent. And lots of family doctors as well, to keep ER's free to handle real emergencies. Public schools will be well funded, religious and private schools will not be funded at all, but they may give out a diploma if they meet the standards. Post-secondary will be free for everybody, once. However, price caps will be put on to prevent schools having outrageous prices as they do now. Lots of other nice social services, such as welfare and food banks and such. Gay marriage is fine, legalization of marijuana...
Thats good for now...
This is good, but not exactly what I meant... I was thinking more along the lines of, would it be a democracy, monarchy, republic, etc.? If its a democracy, would everyone vote on everything, or just those that are directly affected by it? Would the monarch have absolute power with absolutely no checks or balances of power or would there be a separate body of power to counter it? Would the republic be a representative from each family, or 5 people representing 5 billion? Or would you prefer a combination of these or something completely different?
The point of my "realistic government" idea was not to say that no one gets along, but to realize that people will disagree, and that the government will have to overcome this to be effective.
I hope this made my question more clear.
edit: I have found a better way to explain it. What you explained were government policies, not a government. While they are closely related, and are ok for this thread, I was looking for the latter.
This can be anywhere from a few hundred thousand to the size of China:
The ideal one would be a good, caring, smart, skilled dictator but that's not going to happen.
I'd say a democracy with a parliamentary system where you vote for the party, not the canidates are chosen later. The Parliament Members are distributed proportionally to vote. Although this has it's shortcomings, I'd favor a two party system. I'd say the executive branch should have three members, not just one, and that the winning party should get two and the losing party gets one. If 1 vetoes, 50% is still enough to pass legislation from Parliament. If 2 vote, 60% is needed. If all 3 veto, 70% is needed to pass legislation. Going to war or not is decided by popular vote. Any social reforms are also popular vote. In the event that the government is deadlocked on a piece of legislation, it becomes popular vote. If 60% of parliament approves legislation but it's vetoed, it can go to to popular vote if over 50% of parliament approve of that. Church and state is completely seperated. There's a pretty regulated economy. There is a universal health care system. That's a start, I'll think of other aspectes later.
A militaristic Republic similar to what the Romans had. A small, but the most efficient, best trained, well equipped military force, with levies stationed in about every city and town (with sizes of levies being proportioned to that of where they are stationed at), a head quarters for both military and levy force in each distinct region. Those of the upper class will be forced (for a time) during their youth to experience the rigors and turmoils of the lower classes. A document that would be quite similar to that of the Constitution would be the supreme law of the land and a government similar to that of the US. A Democracy is out of the question period. There is a good reason, which is that the Founding Fathers of the US saw that the majority rule (can also be known as mob rule) can end up being a disaster. A phrase which sums it up nicely is, "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers."
Economy would be relatively free market. What hecter proposes sounds nice, but where the hell is all that money going to come from for health care and the likes from the government? There WOULDN'T be any rich people due to the size of taxes. However, the government here would let companies do private health care, but will keep an eye on it in case it goes out of whack.
First, I think the best thing to do in any democracy is to abolish political parties, so that everyone votes locally for a person, not a national figure.
Second, especially if you're in the US, try to get hold of a copy of Take Back your Government by Robert Heinlein. It's an old, non-fiction book based on some opinions formed during his attempt at a political career, but the basic sentiments are neither outdated nor partisan.
First, I think the best thing to do in any democracy is to abolish political parties, so that everyone votes locally for a person, not a national figure.
Second, especially if you're in the US, try to get hold of a copy of Take Back your Government by Robert Heinlein. It's an old, non-fiction book based on some opinions formed during his attempt at a political career, but the basic sentiments are neither outdated nor partisan.
... Did Heinlein require military service for citizenship, and citizenship as a requirement for having children?
Step 1: Everyone who has a handgun or assault rifle must surrender them. (Excluding military and police)
Step 2: Everyone who sanely decided not to purchase a gun of their volition is given one of those recently surrendered.
Step 3: All people without guns are summarily shot. Then, all guns are surrendered.
Result: No more stupid people. (call it engineered Darwinism) Utopia develops.
Ancillary: Automatic transmissions in automobiles are outlawed for being boring, and because they enable stupid people to drive, which they shouldn't, because they cause accidents. Viva la five speed!
Post Script: NASCAR is outlawed for being A) harmful to the environment and B) because only stupid people actually like that shit, and they're all about to be summarily shot anyway, so why not just end the activity about which they all congregate out of the way now? (Unless it is used for a few more races to gather all of the formerly gun-toting idiots into one place, to facilitate Step 3)
jay_a2j wrote:hey if any1 would like me to make them a signature or like an avator just let me no, my sig below i did, and i also did "panther 88" so i can do something like that for u if ud like...
First, I think the best thing to do in any democracy is to abolish political parties, so that everyone votes locally for a person, not a national figure.
Second, especially if you're in the US, try to get hold of a copy of Take Back your Government by Robert Heinlein. It's an old, non-fiction book based on some opinions formed during his attempt at a political career, but the basic sentiments are neither outdated nor partisan.
I completely agree with your first comment. I never understood why parties existed anyway. All they seem to do is force everyone to adopt one set of policies, or another, with no ability to mix and match, for the politicians or voters. Much better to vote for a person than a party.
If there are no parties, 10 canidates might run and 9 of them have pretty similar views, so the odd man wins even though almost no one wants him as president.
The two party system is obliterated, in favor of more parties with similar views but different approaches (allowing for a break between small-government conversatives and big-government conversatives and so on).
Pork-Barrel Politics is banned as a proceedure of the legislative branch, eliminating the need for a line-item veto.
Marajuana is legal but subject to an excise duty/tax just like alcohol and tobacco. The drinking age is lowered to eighteen, which is the same age to drive, vote, enlist, etc (note, I would expect this to be mostly at the state level).
Taking a cue from Alexander Hamilton, there should be a national bank along his specifications.
The freeway system is, both in design and the laws of the road, built along the lines of the German Autobahn; no more passing on the left.
Automatic Tranmissions are banned. Broadform Auto Insurance (basically means your driver's licence is insured, as opposed to separate policies per vehical) is considered a tax write off to all middle and lower income families worth 10% of the tax burden.
A National Sales Tax modeled after New Zealand is enacted, along with a tax on Credit Cards and Loans with an exemption made for home morgages. Payday loans are banned.
The state government may "nationalize" any intra-state business for brief periods of time in an emergancy, the Federal Government may only nationalize interstate businesses, again in emergancies, and may nationalize international businesses if those companies are incorporated in the US.
Any person who is a member of a gang must renounce all ties to any criminal organization before entering the military, all those who are serving and do not are dishonorably discharged and any person who uses skills gained in the military for criminal purposes is guilty of treason.
The Federal Government may not ban the sale, importation or otherwise distribution of firearms (State Governments may or at least have tighter regulations).
Most cities should enact recycling ordinances. As a side note, use of bicycles and/or public transit should be a deductable on property taxes.
Public Schools should follow the example of the German education system of Gymnasiums and Vocational High Schools. Home schooling is allowed as things stand (different states are able to have different standards in this regard). "Magnet" Schools are chartered by the Public School System to take on advanced students.
US Healthcare should be a hybrid private/public affair, with the public system covering basics like prescriptions (especially insulin), doctor's visits and the like, leaving things with surgery to the private hospitals.
Health Savings Accounts are counted as deductables for middle and lower income families and individuals and cannot be drawn from in a lawsuit (so if someone sues you, he/she cannot take money you need to pay your medical bill).
Childless couples (meaning not having children born to them), especially in the upper income percentile, are not able to use any deductable or write-off to lower their taxes, which are set 3% higher than couples that have children (most deductables ought to be for the middle and lower income households anyway).
And that does it for now.
"There is only one road to peace, and that is to conquer"-Hunter Clark
"Give a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life"- Something Hunter would say
Simon Viavant wrote:If there are no parties, 10 canidates might run and 9 of them have pretty similar views, so the odd man wins even though almost no one wants him as president.
Hmmm... That's true. I take back what I said, I will have to think about that before I decide.
Personally, an open dictatorship would be my favoured choice. High civil liberties with relatively low political ones. Freedom of speech, yes (in a sort of speaker's corner way - maybe I'll hire Ink, Dancing Mustard, or any other right thinking individual with a knack for derailing idiots by farce to quash opposition), but founded on the basis that "the fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible." (Go Bertrand Russell). Government control over economy is a must, but there needs to be really stringent regulation. Public healthcare and education, cut military expenditure to help funding after some initial grabbing of nukes to establish MAD. If I can't sort problems in foreign countries with words, it's not worth sorting. Support for unempolyed people for an appropriate amount of time depending on what the job market is like at the time, but I'm not putting up with ego-ran fastidiousness; if you won't take a job (wage vs living conditions permitting), you don't deserve the support of the government.
Draconian_Intel wrote:
Simon Viavant wrote:If there are no parties, 10 canidates might run and 9 of them have pretty similar views, so the odd man wins even though almost no one wants him as president.
Hmmm... That's true. I take back what I said, I will have to think about that before I decide.
But, in an ideal system, the candidates aren't running because they want the job, as much as because they want their ideals to be represented (and hopefully then could agree to bow out gracefully in favour of the candidate with the best chance of doing that - which is what part politics does mostly anyway, which is why Hillary isn't still deriding Obama's policies, am I right?). You could also avoid the problem by not having one person calling the shots but rather having all 10 as part of the decision making process and voting in referenda (or similar) to decide course of action.
Well if i was not the leader then i would like the current British Democracy if i was the leader here is how i would run the town.
-Dismiss the Scottish national party government and Welsh assembly governments and bring them both under direct control of the British government.
-Have boats and helicopters patrolling British waters so no Illegals can cross the waters, any that do would be creamed on sight.
-Have immigration but put the British people 1st.
-Make it harder to obtain British citizenship, if you work here for over 20 years you can get British citizenship or if you work in the military for 5 years or more you can obtain citizenship (and just because your child was born here this does not mean you can get automatic citizenship).
-A basic grasp of English is a must to atleast work in the country.
-The death penalty can be used at the judges or jury's disgression for Paedophiles and rapists. (note that a death row sentence of 1 year will be included.)
-For crimes like murder, mutilation, fraud on a higher level could involve backbraking labour in work camps, the labour would include useful things like building roads, or making stuff like footballs or equiptment, if the standard is not good enough or not enough has been made you will face pain on a very high level.
-For crimes like that there would not be stuff like 5 years or 10 years in jail, so the quicker you work, the quicker you get out.
-For petty crimes like theft convicts will get pelted with rotten fruit or vegetables (note no stones) to make alot of money out of it.
-Review the choice of being in the EU (if there are are more positives then negatives, stay, if it is the opposite, withdraw) even though the government would be a dictatorship a vote could be counted.
-Adding to that, Citizens could have a choice in what goes on in the country if it's appropriate to decide to have a vote.
-If it is possible build a nuclear defence (to stop missiles in the air) then build one, if not possible the only choice would be to build more nuclear missiles.
-Take control of the church and make it more traditional and include more religious studies in education, expressing many different views and beliefs (atheism included) but have christianity as the main teaching point (after all the majority of the UK is christian).
-Make the king/queen agree to what i say if they publically disagree to what is going on have a revolution and install myself and bloodline to being king. (A.K.A. making them sleep in there bathroom).
-If the army is low, have drafts.
-There will be no private schools, only publically funded schools.
-No physical punishment in schools, however borstall schools (where naughty children go) will have physical punishments, whether they are a boy or girl there will be equal punishment.
-A British flag in every street, and public institution.
-More military parades with tanks and planes.
-More holidays (have a British day) and English, Scotish, Welsh, northern Irish holiday (the latter will be on different days).
The1exile wrote:You could also avoid the problem by not having one person calling the shots but rather having all 10 as part of the decision making process and voting in referenda (or similar) to decide course of action.
So in this situation have Obama, Hilary, Biden, Bill Richardson, Whichever other democrats I forgot, plus McCain, Huckabee, Romney, Juliani, Ron Paul, and all the other Republicans I forgot (about 20 canidates total between democrats and Republicans) all in the white house with equal power? I'm sorry but nothing would ever get done. And there are no credentials for running for president except age and being born in the U.S. and not being a felon. Anyone could run. That would just be like signing up to govern the country and everyone who wanted to would get in. Then we'd have hundreds of people who just decided to be there voting on things.
1. legalise marijuana, cocaine and ecstasy - then tax seven shades of shit out out of it. Give heroin away free to all addicts and use the taxes from the first three drugs to fund a drug rehabilitation for heroin addicts.
2. stop pop idol being televised after the audition rounds
3. allow euthanasia
4. limit all couples to 2 children. once a woman has 2 children - sterilization as standard
5. single mothers get less money than couples bringing up children
6. prisons to be converted to single person small cells with no contact with other prisoners, shorten sentences by half. Prisoners made to create a set amount of electricity by operating pedal powered generators for upto 12 hours a day.
7. longer sentences to be given to criminals found guilty of crimes against a person (IE burglary, ABH), shorter sentences for criminals who carry out crimes against no one (IE tax evasion, shoplifting)
8. In cases where there is no doubt that murder or rape has been committed (IE Fred West) - death penalty (1 year on death row being fed some slop - like in the Matrix - 3 times a day)
9. 24 hour TV channels for children stopped. limit childrens programmes to 4 hours a day to encourage creative play, exercise and interaction.
10. make cooking and home economics mandatory in school.
11. force all girls under the age of 16 to abort pregnancies. If pregnancy is discovered really late, the child is to be given up for adoption to a married couple unable to conceive.
12. Marriage guidance is to be free and a waiting time to see a counselor of no more than 2 weeks.
Simon Viavant wrote:Did you even read my post, or did you just take one sentence out of context so it helped your argument?
The rest of your argument seems to consist of saying "I'm sorry but nothing would get done" repeatedly while assuming two things which aren't necessary in my system - one, that there's a "white house" (or equivalent) and only one leader, and two, that politicking needs to be a full time occupation.
