Argue from the wrong point of view (religion edition)

[Juan_Bottom]

Ok guys, time to argue for the opposition. Let them know what you think that they sound like.
For example, Atheist argue that there is a God, and Christians can argue that there isn't... or that it's a differen't one like Sheba or something. And as always, Scientologists can just go F themselves.


I'll start.
Of course there is a God. Look around you. Look at all of the natural beauty. Look at the trees... fish in the stream... the warm sun on your skin... to me it all says love. Someone out there loves us.


And don't tell me that God has to have come from somewhere, because you don't know where everything else in the universe came from before the "big bang" so those two cancel each other out.

And no, animals can't evolve, but they can adapt. Seems like everytime we try to have an intelligent conversation about that you immorals cry foul and hide behind your courts. There is a wealth of information out there that evolution is full of holes so why do you believe it?

[pimpdave]

f*ck you, Xenu gonna kick your ass.

[captain.crazy]

This could be fun!

God can't possibly exist. The fact that we are so imperfect, that we can kill, mutilate, rape and despise one another so much it proof that there is no way that we possibly came from such an allegedly perfect source. In fact, I dare say that logically, you can disprove that God can do anything as so many people suggest that he can when they say that all things are possible in the Lord. To that I say, let Him create a weight that even He cannot lift, for indeed, with the colossal failure that is man kind, I do believe that is exactly what He has done. Far more likely is the fact that He does not exist.

How is that Juan?

[captain.crazy]

f*ck you, Xenu gonna kick your ass.

What does this even mean?

[Simon Viavant]

This could be interesting if it was actually done in earnest.

Right now both of you are just trying to make the other side's argument look ridiculous.

I'll try.

This could be fun!

God can't possibly exist. The fact that we are so imperfect, that we can kill, mutilate, rape and despise one another so much it proof that there is no way that we possibly came from such an allegedly perfect source. In fact, I dare say that logically, you can disprove that God can do anything as so many people suggest that he can when they say that all things are possible in the Lord. To that I say, let Him create a weight that even He cannot lift, for indeed, with the colossal failure that is man kind, I do believe that is exactly what He has done. Far more likely is the fact that He does not exist.

How is that Juan?

It's not God's fault that we kill, rape, and despise each other. That is a personal choice, and God created us with that choice, because otherwise we'd be mindless robots.

[captain.crazy]

This could be interesting if it was actually done in earnest.
Right now both of you are just trying to make the other side's argument look ridiculous.

Ouch! I was really trying there. I guess I failed?

[Juan_Bottom]

This could be interesting if it was actually done in earnest.
Right now both of you are just trying to make the other side's argument look ridiculous.

Ouch! I was really trying there. I guess I failed?

me too....

It's not God's fault that we kill, rape, and despise each other. That is a personal choice, and God created us with that choice, because otherwise we'd be mindless robots.

Exactly, God has a plan. And like it or not, you are part of that plan.

[Simon Viavant]

Yes, I realize that, I was saying it could be interesting if you actually tried to make a good argument for them.

[captain.crazy]

Yes, I realize that, I was saying it could be interesting if you actually tried to make a good argument for them.

but then you said that our arguments sucked!

[luns101]

My position is not really held as a positive position, but rather from a perspective of doubt. I really only know what it is that I don't believe and not so much as what I can state with certainty. I'll try to articulate my biggest problems with the Christian God...although I can understand why some people would look at the intricate design of the world and cosmos and believe in some sort of higher power out there.

How could an all-powerful and all-loving God allow the church to do so much harm to humanity for so long? Isn't this supposed to be His true church or representative on earth? Anyway, that's what my Christian friends have told me and they haven't done such a good job representing if that's the case.

Where was God when the Christians were killing Muslims and Jews - women and children included in that by the way. What is so "holy" about a crusade that murders innocents? The Spanish Inquisition comes to mind right off the bat. Also, the church played a passive role during the Holocaust. It would have seemed like the perfect time for the Church to "love they neighbor as thyself" if ever there was a time to do so.


It was this same church which decided which books would constitute the "Holy Bible" and which ones wouldn't be included. Hey, I could've done that with a group of people myself. I don't need a group of people from hundreds of years ago deciding what is and isn't holy.

Those are my big objections and if anybody can answer them I'm up for discussing it with you.

[jay_a2j]

You Xians are so diluted to think some all powerful, all knowing sky daddy even exists. But then you go even further to say he will cast you into a "lake of fire".... but he "loves" you. That the Bible is 100% accurate? Come on, you'll need to come up with something to back this. Like proof that there was a global flood, proof that Jonah was swallowed by a big fish or something. After all we non-believers have documented evidence that your great great great great great grandpa was an ape. As well as proof that life CAN come from nothing! We do not need a "higher power" we do a fine job at running things on our own.



(This is harder that I thought)

[GabonX]

God is dead

[john9blue]

This thread is just asking for sarcastic responses. Unfortunately, I cannot possibly argue any opposing viewpoints, as they are all wrong.

Well, ok, seriously. Theoretically, I could argue for just about any position out there, because I have decided that most controversial issues are fundamentally about beliefs. If it was a matter of pure reasoning, there would not be so much debate over it. There are beliefs with more logic and beliefs with less logic, but very very few issues are black and white.

[luns101]

Well, I was making a serious attempt at arguing based on some of the assumptions I had about Christians before I became one. I was hoping someone would at least make the attempt to respond.

[Snorri1234]

Racism is totally ok.

[jay_a2j]

Racism is totally ok.

From which side do you argue?

[captain.crazy]

Racism is totally ok.

From which side do you argue?

Snorri believed that racism is a religion.

[Snorri1234]

Racism is totally ok.

From which side do you argue?

I am a mormon.

[jonesthecurl]

Fossils and the age of the world.
We can deduce from the bible the exact (or approximate, depending how literally you take some of the numbers) age of the Earth.
Yet some things about it appear older. Why is this?
Easy.
When God created Adam, he created him as an adult. To look at him, you wouldn't know his teeth weren't adult teeth, that had grown to replace milk teeeth. His blood had nutrients in it as if he'd been eating, and oxygen as though he had already been breathing. His finger and toenails looked just like ones that had been growing for 20 years and cut every now and then.
Logically, he could not be a functioning human being if he didn't appear, from his first instant, exactly like someone who'd been there for a while.
God created grass, not seeds, and chickens, not just eggs with no mom to hatch them.
Everything looked, from the moment it was created, exactly as if it had been around for a while.
The same is true of the Earth and the entire universe. It is young, but it was created to look old.

[jay_a2j]

Fossils and the age of the world.
We can deduce from the bible the exact (or approximate, depending how literally you take some of the numbers) age of the Earth.
Yet some things about it appear older. Why is this?
Easy.
When God created Adam, he created him as an adult. To look at him, you wouldn't know his teeth weren't adult teeth, that had grown to replace milk teeeth. His blood had nutrients in it as if he'd been eating, and oxygen as though he had already been breathing. His finger and toenails looked just like ones that had been growing for 20 years and cut every now and then.
Logically, he could not be a functioning human being if he didn't appear, from his first instant, exactly like someone who'd been there for a while.
God created grass, not seeds, and chickens, not just eggs with no mom to hatch them.
Everything looked, from the moment it was created, exactly as if it had been around for a while.
The same is true of the Earth and the entire universe. It is young, but it was created to look old.

Before there was anything, there was nothing. The universe was a big black nothingness. Then one day, gasses appeared. They reacted with each other and BANG! planets and stars came into being! Over time, under the right circumstances, microscopic life began to emerge. These early life forms became what we know today as humans. Of course this took a long long long time which is why we can not observe it in today's world.

[AAFitz]

Jay just typed something that didnt make sense

[Rocketry]

God is out of fashion.

Rocket.

[jay_a2j]

Jay just typed something that didnt make sense

Humor me, I'm trying to think like an atheist here!

[jonesthecurl]

Fossils and the age of the world.
We can deduce from the bible the exact (or approximate, depending how literally you take some of the numbers) age of the Earth.
Yet some things about it appear older. Why is this?
Easy.
When God created Adam, he created him as an adult. To look at him, you wouldn't know his teeth weren't adult teeth, that had grown to replace milk teeeth. His blood had nutrients in it as if he'd been eating, and oxygen as though he had already been breathing. His finger and toenails looked just like ones that had been growing for 20 years and cut every now and then.
Logically, he could not be a functioning human being if he didn't appear, from his first instant, exactly like someone who'd been there for a while.
God created grass, not seeds, and chickens, not just eggs with no mom to hatch them.
Everything looked, from the moment it was created, exactly as if it had been around for a while.
The same is true of the Earth and the entire universe. It is young, but it was created to look old.

Before there was anything, there was nothing. The universe was a big black nothingness. Then one day, gasses appeared. They reacted with each other and BANG! planets and stars came into being! Over time, under the right circumstances, microscopic life began to emerge. These early life forms became what we know today as humans. Of course this took a long long long time which is why we can not observe it in today's world.

AH but, you see, just as Adam was created adult, but could not have been distinguished physically from a human being formed through conception, so God created the universe as an adult, indistinguishable from a unverse that had emerged from a Big Bang. And, even though we can see stars being formed today (and by implication our "scientific" notions of how stars form are therefore correct), that doesn't mean that the Sun wasn't created looking like a G-type star in the middle of the main sequence. It was just created old.
In the same way, the Earth was formed with pre-existing fossils - just as it had pre-existing topsoil (normally formed by decay of organic matter) and pre-existing mountains (normally formed by volcanic activity or continental drift).

(edited to sort out quotes properly)

[PLAYER57832]

Let's see.

Everything around can be explained through fully natural means. It is just silly to think some greater "being" had to make us and all around us.

Furthermore, the world is so far from perfect, it is just hard to imagine how a real God would have created it thus. The ONLY Possible explanation is that God does NOT exist!

P.S. you cannot prove me wrong!