U.S. Drinking Age

[thegreekdog]

Consider:

(1) The "driving age" in most states ranges from 16 years old to 18 years old.
(2) The age at which one can enlist in the armed forces is 18 years old. Presumably one can drive a tank at that age.
(3) The age at which one can vote is 18 years old.

[MaleAlphaThree]

Apparently....

• You have never been drunk, and/or totally fucking wasted.
• You have never been a teenager.
• You have never met someone that is one of the above, or both at the same time.

Let me clue you in on the details:

Teenagers are dumb fucks. Some make better decisions than others, but for the most part they are the dumbest, and most dangerous, seed on the earth (dumber than young kids, because young kids aren't clever enough to do much damage).

Drunk people are dumb fucks. Some people handle their alcohol better than others, but for the most part you can't trust a drunk with anything more than: attempting to drink to the point of vomiting, being violent and/or clumsy, and then sticking you with the bill at the end of the night (assuming they're an average, kind-hearted drunk).

Drunk teenagers are DOUBLE dumb fucks. As if teenagers weren't reckless and chaotic when they're sober, when you leave them alone with enough alcohol to go around (don't forget party drugs + marijuana) you can pretty much guarantee that something is going to get destroyed (in the very least, their own bodies' depending on the natures of the kids involved).


We may disagree on the point of how stupid teenagers are, as I'm sure it varies to a degree from one area to the next, but I see no reason why the legal drinking age even makes a difference. Teenagers, if they so desire, can acquire alcohol. Whether it is from their parents' liquor cabinet, an older sibling running out to the store, or successfully using fake IDs, there is always a way to get it. Law enforcement just simply can't be guarding every single liquor store at once and keeping tabs on the alcoholic purchases of EVERYONE at the same time. No one has the resources to do that, nor does anyone care. Teenagers will get alcohol (and other abused substances) whether the law wants them to or not.

So, for years, teenagers can legally vote, join the army (and drive a tank ), drive a car, and smoke deathsticks the whole time. Who the f*ck cares? They're going to drink, drive, toke up, and do whatever else they want, ANYWAY. If they think they won't get caught, they'll do it. Some have the spine to do it even when they think they will get caught.... or have been caught before. It's their body, they can go ahead and f*ck it up if they want to, I don't give half a shit. If they regret it later on, good for them, they learned a lesson the hard way (even though their parents probably "told them so" a long time ago).

[thegreekdog]

So, Male Alpha Three... which one did you vote for? You see, I can't tell whether you don't think there is a drinking age, whether the drinking age should be higher, or whether no one should be permitted to drink alcohol.

[MaleAlphaThree]

I said, "Yes", it's reasonable. I have been 21 for about 9 months now, and only within the past year (about) have I felt [objectively] that I am plenty mature enough to make critical decisions regarding the health of my body, and how I want to abuse it. Before then, I was just another dumb teenager that thinks they know everything.... because all teenagers do.

[nagerous]

The drinking age is 18 here in the UK..

I am now 20 and feel that 2 years experience of legal drinking has made me understand the world and made me mature a hell of a lot faster. I believe that the age should be 18 there.

Your comment about teenagers being 'dumbfucks' as you so eloquently put it strikes me as a comment made out of ignorance. Of course there are idiots out there, but there are lot of people of that age who are much more responsible than you first might think. Simply put, teenagers are allowed to drive cars and join the army and fight a war and this is a hell of a lot more dangerous than being able to drink. Also, legalised drinking is so much safer than illegal drinking. Before I turned 18 we used to get drink anyway and what we would do is drink it on the streets or down dark alleyways and car parks where one would meet a lot of unsavoury characters, there would be often lots of acts of vandalism etc. and it was much more dangerous! I feel a hell of a lot safer being able to drink legally in business establishments where you aren't in danger.

[Frigidus]

Either lower the drinking age or raise the voting age. If you have a say in the course of the country you can handle a beverage that turns you into an idiot.

[thegreekdog]

Frigidus and nagerous pretty much echo my thoughts on the subject. And, for reference, I'm 29; so I've been drinking legally for 8 years (and illegally for about 3).

If the US government can draft an 18 year old kid to fight a war in some remote part of the world, which may include, but not be limited to, driving a tank and/or shooting a gun and/or flying a $2 billion airplane, I think that person should be able to drink a beer in peace when he gets back.

Unfortunately, at the rate the US is going, parents will raise the drinking age to 25 so their poor little Suzy won't get trashed at the Jersey shore. God, I hate this country sometimes.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Keep the age limit the same.

Does it stop people from doing it? Nope.

[GabonX]

21 is a magical age where all people become enlightened and more responsible.

When I woke up on my 21st birthday I could tell that I was much more mature than when I fell asleep the night before.

[MaleAlphaThree]

You need to meet the majority of American teenagers. It's almost like some of them idolize retards. I was embarrassed to be in the same generation through high school, and now I'm just embarrassed to be in the same species as the mock "adults" they've developed into, due to the brain damage incurred by substances.

I stressed the fact that there are enough exceptions to defeat the stereotype, but then: no smoke without fire. Legal or not, anyone can get alcohol almost anywhere. Europe is more mature as a society (from what I can tell), and I don't understand why you would take "risks" to drink in dark alleys etc. It's just alcohol, plenty of time in the world, and in life, to kill brain cells.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Personally i drink cause i have fun doing it. Good way to blow stress off too. But yeah cant say im too happy about the other drinkers at my age...

[thegreekdog]

You need to meet the majority of American teenagers. It's almost like some of them idolize retards. I was embarrassed to be in the same generation through high school, and now I'm just embarrassed to be in the same species as the mock "adults" they've developed into, due to the brain damage incurred by substances.

I stressed the fact that there are enough exceptions to defeat the stereotype, but then: no smoke without fire. Legal or not, anyone can get alcohol almost anywhere. Europe is more mature as a society (from what I can tell), and I don't understand why you would take "risks" to drink in dark alleys etc. It's just alcohol, plenty of time in the world, and in life, to kill brain cells.

Maybe Europe is a more mature society because they have a different drinking age.

Part of the problem with teenagers these days is that they are, by and large, overly coddled by their parents. I've heard recently that parents have begun to write letters to UNIVERSITIES(!) to discuss their childrens' grades. These types of phemonenon have led to the horrible sense of entitlement that I have begun to see in some of my younger co-workers.

In any event, I still think there should be no drinking age in the US. It doesn't matter if you're drunk and 15 or drunk and 35, you act like an idiot, you're still going to get arrested (if you get caught). I think that's enough to curb any idiocy through drinking problems.

[PLAYER57832]

Maybe Europe is a more mature society because they have a different drinking age.

They have different attitudes about many things, but I am not sure "more mature" applies to all areas. In some respects, American teens are more knowledgeable. In others. not. Also there is a great deal of difference between countries in Europe.

Part of the problem with teenagers these days is that they are, by and large, overly coddled by their parents. I've heard recently that parents have begun to write letters to UNIVERSITIES(!) to discuss their childrens' grades. These types of phemonenon have led to the horrible sense of entitlement that I have begun to see in some of my younger co-workers.

uuh.. look up "in locus parentis".

Anyway, it used to be that colleges had curfews on dormitories and very strict codes of conduct because they were acting in the place of the parents.

However, I will say that a sense of entitlement has been built in a generation that is constantly entertained, who's idea of "responsibility" is to show up for a sporting team (not that they don't instill discipline and positive values... but it's not the same as chores, etc.), who have always had so many "things" they can hardly even catalogue them all, never mind use them ... and the overwhelming impression they get that every other kid in the universe (unless they live in third world countries or the ghetto, perhaps) has those things, too.

Alchohol or lack of it has little to do with it. Further, if parent's haven't instilled some values into their kids by the time they are teens, then a change in the legal drinking age won't fix it.

[MaleAlphaThree]

It boils down to good parenting, or not, and the ability of people to use critical thinking and make good choices (about their bodies' for one). There are plenty of immature adults, people that refused to use their brains properly and take some responsibility, but you can't build teenagers that have the maturity that only experience of being alive can give. Seriously, if I met myself from only 3 years ago (18) I would tell myself that I am only half the hot shit I thought I was and that I need to get a goddamn clue. Now, I know how mature I am and how mature I'm not. I know my limits, in body and mind, and that alone makes me a man. As a teenager, you don't know your ass from your elbow. No matter WHO you are, or WHERE you're from.

The trouble comes from when you think you're something you're not.... mature enough to know the difference.

[DirtyDishSoap]

You need to meet the majority of American teenagers. It's almost like some of them idolize retards. I was embarrassed to be in the same generation through high school, and now I'm just embarrassed to be in the same species as the mock "adults" they've developed into, due to the brain damage incurred by substances.

I stressed the fact that there are enough exceptions to defeat the stereotype, but then: no smoke without fire. Legal or not, anyone can get alcohol almost anywhere. Europe is more mature as a society (from what I can tell), and I don't understand why you would take "risks" to drink in dark alleys etc. It's just alcohol, plenty of time in the world, and in life, to kill brain cells.

Maybe Europe is a more mature society because they have a different drinking age.

Part of the problem with teenagers these days is that they are, by and large, overly coddled by their parents. I've heard recently that parents have begun to write letters to UNIVERSITIES(!) to discuss their childrens' grades. These types of phemonenon have led to the horrible sense of entitlement that I have begun to see in some of my younger co-workers.

In any event, I still think there should be no drinking age in the US. It doesn't matter if you're drunk and 15 or drunk and 35, you act like an idiot, you're still going to get arrested (if you get caught). I think that's enough to curb any idiocy through drinking problems.

Beat the damn shit out of our kids is the answer! Of course when they f*ck up or do somethin stupid.

[InkL0sed]

uuh.. look up "parentus en locii" (unless I spelled it wrong ).

More than spelled wrong. It's "in locus parentis"

[PLAYER57832]

uuh.. look up "parentus en locii" (unless I spelled it wrong ).

More than spelled wrong. It's "in locus parentis"

Thanks, I fixed it.

[PLAYER57832]

It boils down to good parenting, or not, and the ability of people to use critical thinking and make good choices (about their bodies' for one). There are plenty of immature adults, people that refused to use their brains properly and take some responsibility, but you can't build teenagers that have the maturity that only experience of being alive can give. Seriously, if I met myself from only 3 years ago (18) I would tell myself that I am only half the hot shit I thought I was and that I need to get a goddamn clue. Now, I know how mature I am and how mature I'm not. I know my limits, in body and mind, and that alone makes me a man. As a teenager, you don't know your ass from your elbow. No matter WHO you are, or WHERE you're from.

The trouble comes from when you think you're something you're not.... mature enough to know the difference.

The problem is that "good parenting" is too broad and too much of a "scapegoat". There is a range of what could be considered good and appropriate parenting. Some families simply don't believe in drinking ... at all. Others .. do.

The question is whether alchohol is something that should be introduced gradually, at home or is something that should be left until the child is old enough to leave, is a full legal adult, when suddenly he/she is supposed to be mature enough to drink.

I would like to see a change like in many European countries. Wine and beer are available with parental supervision (in Europe often an 8 year old can buy beer.. that goes a bit far, I think). Hard liquor is available when older. That, then, does put the issue much more in the hands of parents. It allows parents to teach responsible drinking in moderation, if that is their choice.

[Woodruff]

Consider:

(1) The "driving age" in most states ranges from 16 years old to 18 years old.
(2) The age at which one can enlist in the armed forces is 18 years old. Presumably one can drive a tank at that age.
(3) The age at which one can vote is 18 years old.

I do personally think the drinking age in the U.S. is reasonable. What disappoints me the most about this particular subject isn't that underage kids drink, but rather the total irresponsibility of so many parents in handling their children and alcohol abuse.

[Woodruff]

Your comment about teenagers being 'dumbfucks' as you so eloquently put it strikes me as a comment made out of ignorance. Of course there are idiots out there, but there are lot of people of that age who are much more responsible than you first might think.

I would not have believed it before I became a high school teacher, but you are absolutely correct. But there really are a lot of dumbfucks too. <chuckle>

[Woodruff]

If the US government can draft an 18 year old kid to fight a war in some remote part of the world, which may include, but not be limited to, driving a tank and/or shooting a gun and/or flying a $2 billion airplane, I think that person should be able to drink a beer in peace when he gets back.

No 18 year old will be flying ANY airplane in the military, never mind one of the $2 billion jobs. They're not likely to be driving a tank either, though that will happen more quickly than the pilot.

However, I do agree with your general point regarding the age for military service and using alcohol.

[JoshyBoy]

21?!?

Your actually having a laugh. I cant agree more with the points that have been made already in this thread. I am from the UK where the age is 18. God help us if it was 21! There would be sooooooooo much more crime than there already is.

I personally don't really drink because I'm an amateur athlete and value my training too much.

but seriously, whoever thought the age should be 21 should have been smothered at birth

Reduce it to 18.

[nagerous]

Your comment about teenagers being 'dumbfucks' as you so eloquently put it strikes me as a comment made out of ignorance. Of course there are idiots out there, but there are lot of people of that age who are much more responsible than you first might think.

I would not have believed it before I became a high school teacher, but you are absolutely correct. But there really are a lot of dumbfucks too. <chuckle>

Well, there you go, you've had first hand experience of working with teenagers and know the truth . The media portray scare stories all the time, of what alcohol makes a select minority do at a young age. They talk about teenagers drinking on the streets posing a danger to local communities and use this as an excuse to claim that the age limit for alcohol is sensible, or should be increased. What they don't understand, is that teenagers will always be able to get alcohol, either by raiding parents liquor cabinets or by using older accomplices. Now if the age limit was 18 then street crime would be reduced as 18+s will be an establishment where they can be watched by the barkeep who also has the right to not serve them if they are thinking they are too bladdered, so in essence there is in fact another check on them. If they were just drinking on the streets, they may not know their limits and actually know when to stop but in a more controlled environment it is actually clearer.

[Snorri1234]

I've been legally drinking since I was 16. I think one of the best advantages of that has been that I know how much alcohol affects your skill so I will never drive drunk. I basically experienced shit situations with alcohol before I had to deal with being responsible.

[PLAYER57832]

Consider:

(1) The "driving age" in most states ranges from 16 years old to 18 years old.
(2) The age at which one can enlist in the armed forces is 18 years old. Presumably one can drive a tank at that age.
(3) The age at which one can vote is 18 years old.

I do personally think the drinking age in the U.S. is reasonable. What disappoints me the most about this particular subject isn't that underage kids drink, but rather the total irresponsibility of so many parents in handling their children and alcohol abuse.

Yes, but alchohol abuse and alchohol use are not the same thing. I grew up having the ocassional glass of wine with my meals on special occasions. My mom used a few liquers in various recipes (Christmas pudding, etc.). Mostly, when you cook, the alchohol goes away anyhow. I would not call any of that "abuse".

My stepsons one above drinking age, one not quite, were raised similarly. The kids who seem to have the biggest problems are those that come from households where alchohol is either utterly forbidden, period or where alchohol is used in an irresponsible manner (DUI's, etc.). Those that completely forbid alchohol do so either for religious reasons or because there is a history of family alchoholism. Whether the kid goes a long or not depends a lot on how they view most things their parents teach.