He wants to control the weather too?

[StiffMittens]

I've onlyseen this mentioned once, but it was in the BBC's astronomy magazine, Sky At Night, and thus presumably reliable:
I don't know how true it is now, but at the time of the zine (about three years), there had been an unuaual amount of cosmic dust the years before (2005 perhaps), which certainly could have been a pat of the cause. We are in a fairly dusty region at the moment.
As for Pluto, is it in the part of its orbit just now which takes it closer to the sun? I know it has a very eccentric orbit.

Pluto is currently moving away from the sun.

Yeah, I heard something about cosmic dust as well. I guess the sun changes polarity at solar maximum (every 11 years?), but this time the sun's magnetic field just tilted to the side, apparently, and thus makes for a less efficient magnetic shield. So less shielding while moving through a dusty region of the cosmos. Who knows what the effect of that might be, but it does sound like something straight out of Philip Pullman.

[Nobunaga]

How can you deny all that goes on around you? (weather wise) Changes are happening everywhere, right under your nose. Sure, maybe it's not global warming, but something is definitely happening. So unless you have a alternative explanation, all you're doing is stating your opinion.

... Precisely, and thank you. I make no claims as to having scientific knowledge or background on the subject. My opinion is based on listening to both sides, and looking at the huge miles-wide money trail involved in this "science".

...

[TheProwler]

... Who's ignoring science, Player? (nice to see you again, btw).

... I've said it a million times and I'll say it a million more - science shouldn't be political, though we both know it is now, and that's a crying shame. Too many stand to gain too much ($$) from this to let it slide by unchallenged, yet half of Americans salute and fall in line because of the politics tied into it. (Most) Progressives are believers. (Most) Conservatives are skeptics. That says much as to the extent to which science has been divorced from the argument.

<then he provided a bunch of quotes from acclaimed scientists>

Yeah, but Al Gore had charts!!

And computer-generated animations!!

And he got "Two Thumbs Up! Way Up!!!"

[TheProwler]

I believe there are a few things going on...

Some scientists are saying that a polar shift is becoming more likely....sometime in 2012...and there are a lot more concerns about 2012, as you may know...

I think the government is so publicly focused on Global Warming because it is a distraction. It is enough to concern the average citizen, but it is isn't enough to throw them into a chaotic frenzy (anarchy would not be a good thing right about now).

So the money pours in to battle Global Warming. And some of it is skimmed off the top (really!?!?!?) and used to fund the covert projects that are being run to provide protection to the few rich and powerful.

This is the problem when the rich and powerful also control the knowledge and the release of information.

Hey, who knows what information was presented to them? Maybe it was something like this:

A) We have a 60% chance of saving 80% of the population. If that fails, everyone dies.

B) We have a 90% chance of saving 5% of the population. If that fails, everyone dies.

We'd all say "Pick A! Pick A!"

But we don't get to vote on that one. And if you were in their shoes, what would you do?

[Bovver boy]

I say 'B)' since I fall into the top 1% for pretty much any superior aptitude - it will save me a f*ck load of taxes if the 90% fucked off and died.

[Bovver boy]

I would go further, and actually sterilise the 3-10% who didnt die - again just to save some valuable sheckles.

[jonesthecurl]

I think I've found a way of being right on almost any issue.
Ask Prowler his opinion and take the opposite stance.
Hey - it saves time.

[Juan_Bottom]

One of the most interesting logical points I've come across in this debate is that if the Sun is the source of what's taking place on Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Triton, and Pluto, you'd expect that the effects would be more dramatic on the planets closer in and more subtle on the planets further out in the solar system. But the reverse appears to be true. Pluto has already experienced a 300% increase in atmospheric pressure.

I'm not an astronaut or anything. I wouldn't know what to expect from any action in our solar system... I've just formed an opinion after reading a butt load on this. We can see a definite change in the sun... weird things like a lack of sunspots, but an increase in radiation. I don't know what it all means exactly, I just tried to be impartial when making up my mind. I really wanted (want) to believe in Global Climate Change, but I don't believe the facts support it. Sometimes, you just can't trust your eyes.

And he got "Two Thumbs Up! Way Up!!!"

I hate that guy now. Anyone else see his YouTube video where he tells little kids that they know more than their parents? He LITERALLY compared not believing in Global Warming(2008) with not believing that segregation(1966) should have been ended. Yeah, that's what he wants to teach grade school kids. The video is definitly worth the search.

[TheProwler]

One of the most interesting logical points I've come across in this debate is that if the Sun is the source of what's taking place on Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Triton, and Pluto, you'd expect that the effects would be more dramatic on the planets closer in and more subtle on the planets further out in the solar system. But the reverse appears to be true. Pluto has already experienced a 300% increase in atmospheric pressure.

I'm not an astronaut or anything. I wouldn't know what to expect from any action in our solar system... I've just formed an opinion after reading a butt load on this. We can see a definite change in the sun... weird things like a lack of sunspots, but an increase in radiation. I don't know what it all means exactly, I just tried to be impartial when making up my mind. I really wanted (want) to believe in Global Climate Change, but I don't believe the facts support it. Sometimes, you just can't trust your eyes.

And he got "Two Thumbs Up! Way Up!!!"

I hate that guy now. Anyone else see his YouTube video where he tells little kids that they know more than their parents? He LITERALLY compared not believing in Global Warming(2008) with not believing that segregation(1966) should have been ended. Yeah, that's what he wants to teach grade school kids. The video is definitly worth the search.

Hey Juan, it's refreshing to see someone who is willing to listen to new information that might be contrary to their preconceived ideas. And then having the fortitude to actually realize when he was wrong and change his viewpoint. This is a sign not of weakness, but of strength, and the ability to learn and grow.

[pimpdave]

Regarding the global warming thing, people confuse terms all too often. Both sides do it, too, which is really annoying.

Look, the globe is warming. We know this from clearly observable evidence, and a record of data going back a century.

The debate is over the greenhouse effect, and whether that is responsible for global warming. The theory of the greenhouse effect suffers from the same lack of a priori evidence that the the theory of evolution does. Without that crucial piece of the puzzle, the scientific community cannot responsibly declare these theories as scientific law. I count that as a huge boon to the credibility of that establishment.

However, in the absence of any other competing theory with as much evidence, the consensus of the scientific community helps steer what theory we should operate under as the best one going until something better comes along, or until the existing theory is proven with that crucial, aforementioned a priori evidence.

So, Juan, it's not so unreasonable to doubt the theory of the greenhouse effect. In fact, it is through doubt that scientists formulate hypotheses and design experiments. However, don't doubt the observable data, that global temperatures are rising.

Again, it's the fault of a common confusion in terms, to equate global warming with the greenhouse effect. The two are not synonymous, and I tend to think the perpetuation of this confusion is intentional, for political gain to either side of the debate. And that's the problem. It can be really dangerous and stifling to make science political. Look at what happened to Galileo. The political establishment at that time felt threatened by his science.

And that's just it. If the overwhelming consensus of the scientific community says that the greenhouse effect is the best theory for the cause of global warming, we should do everything we can to slow or reverse those effects. If we're wrong about that, and it's really a pole shift and 2012 and all of that, well, it won't much matter anyway, now will it? But we have to try.

[The1exile]

This doesn't make any sense. You are saying that each individual can only make their own global climate change models and then only trust those or something. There is no logic behind this.
"Never listen to scientists, that's ad hominem!"

As opposed to the thousands of scientists who *do* believe in global warming - most notably those on the UN climate change panel, but also individual ones?

Just because Noba quoted a coupla dozen scientists doesn't change the fact that literally well over 90% of all scientists in areas relating to meteorology believe in climate change.

I'm also pretty sure that "oh we're gonna get hosed by the sun so let's not do anything at all that might help avert climate change" approach is less than helpful.

As to any americans believing that climate change taxes are somehow being skimmed for private agendas, you seem to be ignoring that your country, with it's 4.5% of the worlds population, spends 45% of the worlds ENTIRE military budget each year. And you think it would be easier to skim money off taxes which a) don't exist and b) are coming in a country which doesn't tax its petroleum products?

Also, technically "global warming" should be called "climate change" because its effects are more complex than just everywhere going up by 3 degrees in a decade.

[pimpdave]

Yeah, quick addendum, there are places in my last post where "climate change" should be substituted for "global warming", to be use a more accurate term.

[captain.crazy]

Yeah, quick addendum, there are places in my last post where "climate change" should be substituted for "global warming", to be use a more accurate term.

Why would you change that? The pro global warming science community has changed from Global warning to Climate change. Indeed, that is what climate does after all, no? In fact, polar caps on Mars are melting as well... climate change is not only confined to Earth. The question really is, what is Obama going to do about the carbon footprint for Martians? I think that an extensive tax and disarming the Martian people would be the best tactic to save Mars.

[TheProwler]

Look at what happened to Galileo. The political establishment at that time felt threatened by his science.

pimpster, quite an excellent post, I thought.

I just wanted to quote this segment because I think it is relevant today and I don't want it to be overlooked. But the entire post was excellent.

[captain.crazy]

Look at what happened to Galileo. The political establishment at that time felt threatened by his science.

pimpster, quite an excellent post, I thought.

I just wanted to quote this segment because I think it is relevant today and I don't want it to be overlooked. But the entire post was excellent.

How, exactly, is this a relevant point?

[TheProwler]

Martian people

Martians are hardly "people".



You really are crazy!

[TheProwler]

Look at what happened to Galileo. The political establishment at that time felt threatened by his science.

pimpster, quite an excellent post, I thought.

I just wanted to quote this segment because I think it is relevant today and I don't want it to be overlooked. But the entire post was excellent.

How, exactly, is this a relevant point?

Sorry...gotta run....but I think the current governments are aware of scientific evidence and a high probability of an impending natural disaster, but they are afraid to let the public know. Carbon emission concern is just a distraction.

[captain.crazy]

Martian people

Martians are hardly "people".



You really are crazy!

And yet, here on earth, we can tax the dead. Who is crazy now?

[jonesthecurl]

Martian people

Martians are hardly "people".



You really are crazy!

Don't be Marsist!

[a.sub]

i blame the communist!


jk i love ya commies!