Terrorist Watch List Problems

[PLAYER57832]

Check the facts. It was not an air marshal who apprehended the guy. He was accousted by the people sitting next to him, and they were only able to do so because his bomb failed. AND, the CIA/FBI, etc all very much did ignore warnings by his family because they were buried in the flood of complaints and "information" the agencies get.

Keep on showing us more of your utter brilliance.

so little you know

True.

But I still seem to know a good deal more than you.

[army of nobunaga]

well i do know that no.. that is zero. that is None , nothing. No terrorist acts have happened in the last 5 some odd years...

call it luck if you want bubba... im finished with you.

and I guess the thread... the field is yours expert.

[BigBallinStalin]

From the little I've read on the NSA, this data collection, or data mining, does happen with all cell phones (emails, forum chat, and I think even landline calls, all over the world), and the information gets transferred to their computers, where it goes through a filter. If the call comes from someone who's on their list, it's stored. If the call has certain key words, it's stored. The rest is just scrapped.

I'm just mentioning this because some people have this idea that EVERYTHING is stored, when it really isn't.

[army of nobunaga]

From the little I've read on the NSA, this data collection, or data mining, does happen with all cell phones (emails, forum chat, and I think even landline calls, all over the world), and the information gets transferred to their computers, where it goes through a filter. If the call comes from someone who's on their list, it's stored. If the call has certain key words, it's stored. The rest is just scrapped.

I'm just mentioning this because some people have this idea that EVERYTHING is stored, when it really isn't.

you are correct

edit... I can talk about some of this as its public knowledge. The 4th admendment is held tightly and followed closely by every gathering service associated with the US. The US cannot collect on citizens even if the citizen is calling a known terrorist, that is why terrorist want americans so badly in their fold. It takes a process I cannot talk about that enables collection bodies to collect on american citizens... The speed of this process has been greatly improved (or worsened depending on your standpoint) by the patriot act.

Everything... everything filtered from US citizens is not stored. Unless it has some flags, and then only the flags will show to a human. Then a pattern is established then that citizen is taken through the process I mentioned above to clear for collection on.


Now... everything that the 4th amendment doesnt cover (non us citizens for example) is fair game... and you better believe its taken advantage of on levels you have no idea about.

[Juan_Bottom]

Now... everything that the 4th amendment doesnt cover (non us citizens for example) is fair game... and you better believe its taken advantage of on levels you have no idea about.

Boiling people alive in Uzbekistan?

[jonesthecurl]

Just throwing in a random thought about word filters.
I deal with "intelligent" phone systems whenever I phone any organisation bigger than about three peopl. "Press 1 if you want..." etc. Many of these have word-recognition programs. None of them can understand my accent. I do not have a particularly thick or odd accent. I could say anything I liked and not be picked up, as I suspect could most people with any sort of "foreign" accent.

An airline AI asked my surname. It couldn't understand when I pronounced it. It asked me to spell it. It couldn't understand it when I spelled it. It suggested I try again. "Please SPELL your name. For instance, if your name is "Jones", say "J-O-N-E-S" I was instructed. Most phone AI's can't understand it when I say "yes". They certainly don't understand two minutes later when I'm yelling " 'YES', FOR f*ck'S SAKE, YOU STUPID BLOODY MACHINE!""

[BigBallinStalin]

Now... everything that the 4th amendment doesnt cover (non us citizens for example) is fair game... and you better believe its taken advantage of on levels you have no idea about.

Boiling people alive in Uzbekistan?

Now now, Juan, they're called "terrorists" not "people."

[ghost2501]

Basically all this illegal immigrant and Arizona law stuff comes down to one simple fact they are pushing towards a American Union. They are playing us against each other, just imagine if you could freeze time and read all the debates just in the last 2 months on the internet about illegal immigration. HATE they are getting Americans to hate each other and argue their own points for them. What THEY want is to have a POLICE STATE where every American has to have a National ID card with tracking microchip and biometric features.

Think about it they do nothing for the past 30 years even help them flood the borders, amnesty, NAFTA super highway secret North American Union talks. They do absolutely nothing but soon they will all of a sudden say OK everyone has to have a national ID card and boy watch how fast they snap that into action with military precision because they have been planning it for years and years.

A fun fact people don't know is IBM made the worlds first computer, it was used to calculate the numbers tattooed on the Jews arms during the holocaust. Sick, healthy, old, young, woman, man, and many other variables were input and the computer spit out the death lists and who gets on what train etc etc. Well IBM believe it or not didn't get it right the first time so they invented the UPC label which in fact has 666 on each and every one. look at a candy bar or whiteout or something on your desk go ahead you don't have to look far. You see the bar code there is a thin double line and the beginning that extends down there is a thin double line in the middle that extends down and one at the end also. Each one of those is a binary code for 6 so there is a 6 6 6 on each bar code. Now look at the scary Revelation where 666 comes from:

Revelation 13:16-18
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

So basically these Madmen from IBM are making the worlds second device for holocaust trying to make the worst quote in the bible to come true. Do you realize it describes that young or old rich or poor etc. cannot buy sell or trade without the mark (666), well People everything you buy wither you are poor or rich in jail or free etc. has a UPC label on it and it has a 666 on it! So now all we have to to is have the government call martial law and everyone gets a UPC label put on their forehead or right hand just like it says in Revelation. Well a National Id card is basically the step in between this happening and its their attempt to have us voluntarily do it.

one step closer to having a national ID and NEW world ORDER~! wake up people they are using the Mexicans and they are using the hate from people that want them out. What do you get from that a Police State with national ID cards with microchips in them f*ck THAT!

[Woodruff]

Basically all this illegal immigrant and Arizona law stuff comes down to one simple fact they are pushing towards a American Union. They are playing us against each other, just imagine if you could freeze time and read all the debates just in the last 2 months on the internet about illegal immigration. HATE they are getting Americans to hate each other and argue their own points for them. What THEY want is to have a POLICE STATE where every American has to have a National ID card with tracking microchip and biometric features.

Think about it they do nothing for the past 30 years even help them flood the borders, amnesty, NAFTA super highway secret North American Union talks. They do absolutely nothing but soon they will all of a sudden say OK everyone has to have a national ID card and boy watch how fast they snap that into action with military precision because they have been planning it for years and years.

A fun fact people don't know is IBM made the worlds first computer, it was used to calculate the numbers tattooed on the Jews arms during the holocaust. Sick, healthy, old, young, woman, man, and many other variables were input and the computer spit out the death lists and who gets on what train etc etc. Well IBM believe it or not didn't get it right the first time so they invented the UPC label which in fact has 666 on each and every one. look at a candy bar or whiteout or something on your desk go ahead you don't have to look far. You see the bar code there is a thin double line and the beginning that extends down there is a thin double line in the middle that extends down and one at the end also. Each one of those is a binary code for 6 so there is a 6 6 6 on each bar code. Now look at the scary Revelation where 666 comes from:

Revelation 13:16-18
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

So basically these Madmen from IBM are making the worlds second device for holocaust trying to make the worst quote in the bible to come true. Do you realize it describes that young or old rich or poor etc. cannot buy sell or trade without the mark (666), well People everything you buy wither you are poor or rich in jail or free etc. has a UPC label on it and it has a 666 on it! So now all we have to to is have the government call martial law and everyone gets a UPC label put on their forehead or right hand just like it says in Revelation. Well a National Id card is basically the step in between this happening and its their attempt to have us voluntarily do it.

one step closer to having a national ID and NEW world ORDER~! wake up people they are using the Mexicans and they are using the hate from people that want them out. What do you get from that a Police State with national ID cards with microchips in them f*ck THAT!

I have one question for you...why is "The New World Order" necessarily a bad thing? I have a couple of my own answers, but I would like to hear some non-religious reasons why this is presumed to be the case by individuals such as yourself.

[ghost2501]

Oh I am not religious I am saying they are using the quote from the bible because they are sick. New World Order..? their stated cause is to bring the world down to like 200 million people and that is a strongly "controlled" 200 million do you know what that means genocide on an epic scale.

[army of nobunaga]

Now... everything that the 4th amendment doesnt cover (non us citizens for example) is fair game... and you better believe its taken advantage of on levels you have no idea about.

Boiling people alive in Uzbekistan?

Now now, Juan, they're called "terrorists" not "people."

Guys, I never or at least try not to put emotional opinion in this kind of stuff. I dont know if its "right" or not. I dont know.

I would say that probably boiling ppl alive is never a good thing. But Im jsut a dumb schmuck living in Mexico. Me adding right and wrong in an emotional context is not of any value in an internet forum.

[Woodruff]

Oh I am not religious I am saying they are using the quote from the bible because they are sick. New World Order..? their stated cause is to bring the world down to like 200 million people and that is a strongly "controlled" 200 million do you know what that means genocide on an epic scale.

"Their stated cause"? Where, precisely, has The New World Order stated this?

[PLAYER57832]

I have one question for you...why is "The New World Order" necessarily a bad thing? I have a couple of my own answers, but I would like to hear some non-religious reasons why this is presumed to be the case by individuals such as yourself.

It is a bad thing when people are diverted from the real issues to fight each other.

We have a few real issues.
1. lack of sustainability in anything ... economics, trade, use of minerals, land uses, the environment

2. A sense of high entitlement by the wealthy. Sure, striking it rich, working hard is the American dream. However, so are other things. Things like living by the woods, being free from a city, raising kids in a crime-free environment without requiring armed gaurds, having friends and family all around, etc. When folks who get lucky in the stock market, etc decide that they got wealthy because they worked hard and other people don't because we are all just lazy bums... THAT is like Marie Antoinette saying "let them eat cake" when told that people could not buy bread.

3. Destruction of our "root" systems, the base of our economy. Agriculture, industry and labor. We can trade in cyber tech, ephemeral derivatives, etc, etc. However, unless there is, at the base, some real and true goods and services being sold and produced, the rest is all just skimming. Only so much can be skimmed from the foundation before it falls.

4. Growing intolerance for people with varied beliefs. Ironically mixed with a generation of much tolerance on other fronts -- race, gender, etc.

[Woodruff]

I have one question for you...why is "The New World Order" necessarily a bad thing? I have a couple of my own answers, but I would like to hear some non-religious reasons why this is presumed to be the case by individuals such as yourself.

It is a bad thing when people are diverted from the real issues to fight each other.

We have a few real issues.
1. lack of sustainability in anything ... economics, trade, use of minerals, land uses, the environment

2. A sense of high entitlement by the wealthy. Sure, striking it rich, working hard is the American dream. However, so are other things. Things like living by the woods, being free from a city, raising kids in a crime-free environment without requiring armed gaurds, having friends and family all around, etc. When folks who get lucky in the stock market, etc decide that they got wealthy because they worked hard and other people don't because we are all just lazy bums... THAT is like Marie Antoinette saying "let them eat cake" when told that people could not buy bread.

3. Destruction of our "root" systems, the base of our economy. Agriculture, industry and labor. We can trade in cyber tech, ephemeral derivatives, etc, etc. However, unless there is, at the base, some real and true goods and services being sold and produced, the rest is all just skimming. Only so much can be skimmed from the foundation before it falls.

4. Growing intolerance for people with varied beliefs. Ironically mixed with a generation of much tolerance on other fronts -- race, gender, etc.

I'm a bit confused as to how this relates to the New World Order and their nefarious plans for us all.

[Juan_Bottom]

Guys, I never or at least try not to put emotional opinion in this kind of stuff. I dont know if its "right" or not. I dont know.

I always do... that is what makes me a human. Insects don't have politics.

I would say that probably boiling ppl alive is never a good thing. But Im jsut a dumb schmuck living in Mexico. Me adding right and wrong in an emotional context is not of any value in an internet forum.

It is never a good thing!!! These people are hiding behind my flag!

[PLAYER57832]

I have one question for you...why is "The New World Order" necessarily a bad thing? I have a couple of my own answers, but I would like to hear some non-religious reasons why this is presumed to be the case by individuals such as yourself.

It is a bad thing when people are diverted from the real issues to fight each other.

We have a few real issues.
1. lack of sustainability in anything ... economics, trade, use of minerals, land uses, the environment

2. A sense of high entitlement by the wealthy. Sure, striking it rich, working hard is the American dream. However, so are other things. Things like living by the woods, being free from a city, raising kids in a crime-free environment without requiring armed gaurds, having friends and family all around, etc. When folks who get lucky in the stock market, etc decide that they got wealthy because they worked hard and other people don't because we are all just lazy bums... THAT is like Marie Antoinette saying "let them eat cake" when told that people could not buy bread.

3. Destruction of our "root" systems, the base of our economy. Agriculture, industry and labor. We can trade in cyber tech, ephemeral derivatives, etc, etc. However, unless there is, at the base, some real and true goods and services being sold and produced, the rest is all just skimming. Only so much can be skimmed from the foundation before it falls.

4. Growing intolerance for people with varied beliefs. Ironically mixed with a generation of much tolerance on other fronts -- race, gender, etc.

I'm a bit confused as to how this relates to the New World Order and their nefarious plans for us all.

Any one of these, allowed to continue, will lead to collapse of not just our country, but perhaps civilization as we know it. So, anything that diverts attention from these is going to lead to the New World Order, per the above.

I actually agree that this might be happening, I just disagree that this is in any way good or what is intended for us to pursue.

We have had many collapses, many "new world orders" in human history, since the time of Christ. In this case, though, the "new order" will likely leave humans out of the mix... at least humans as we know them.

[Woodruff]

I have one question for you...why is "The New World Order" necessarily a bad thing? I have a couple of my own answers, but I would like to hear some non-religious reasons why this is presumed to be the case by individuals such as yourself.

It is a bad thing when people are diverted from the real issues to fight each other.

We have a few real issues.
1. lack of sustainability in anything ... economics, trade, use of minerals, land uses, the environment

2. A sense of high entitlement by the wealthy. Sure, striking it rich, working hard is the American dream. However, so are other things. Things like living by the woods, being free from a city, raising kids in a crime-free environment without requiring armed gaurds, having friends and family all around, etc. When folks who get lucky in the stock market, etc decide that they got wealthy because they worked hard and other people don't because we are all just lazy bums... THAT is like Marie Antoinette saying "let them eat cake" when told that people could not buy bread.

3. Destruction of our "root" systems, the base of our economy. Agriculture, industry and labor. We can trade in cyber tech, ephemeral derivatives, etc, etc. However, unless there is, at the base, some real and true goods and services being sold and produced, the rest is all just skimming. Only so much can be skimmed from the foundation before it falls.

4. Growing intolerance for people with varied beliefs. Ironically mixed with a generation of much tolerance on other fronts -- race, gender, etc.

I'm a bit confused as to how this relates to the New World Order and their nefarious plans for us all.

Any one of these, allowed to continue, will lead to collapse of not just our country, but perhaps civilization as we know it. So, anything that diverts attention from these is going to lead to the New World Order, per the above.

I actually agree that this might be happening, I just disagree that this is in any way good or what is intended for us to pursue.

We have had many collapses, many "new world orders" in human history, since the time of Christ. In this case, though, the "new order" will likely leave humans out of the mix... at least humans as we know them.

Um...aliens? I'm confused even more now.

[PLAYER57832]

Um...aliens? I'm confused even more now.

Biologically speaking, (only), humans, as a species depend pretty heavily on the Earth around us, including the animals and plants we consider "nature". Many of these systems are threatened. Individual species are just indicators, but you cannot find an ecosystem on Earth without several threatened and endangered species. Individually, we could probably do without a few of those species, though none of us is really smart enough to know which ones, precisely. However, this many species over such a wide range of ecosystems indicates some very, very serious problems. When there is barely a system on Earth not endangered, then, ultimately, it means WE are endangered.

Humans... we might survive, sure. We have survived holocausts, pograms, various natural and human-created disasters. We have lost much in the process, but recently, technology has assured most of us, at least in the west, steady gains. So, we grow arrogant. Whole groups of us think "hey, no need to worry ... a 'tech fix' is 'out there.' " Except, well, the problem with tech is that while it HAS given us a lot more opportunity, it has also magnified the harm many times.

If we look back in history, we see that civilization after civilization was lost. Often many civilizations at a time. People survived, but sometimes went from civilization to "barbariandom" (thinking southern Europe, after the fall of Rome, in particular). What will happen after this collapse, if it is not averted ... it is food for sci fi writers.

Biologically speaking, I suspect that the changes we will wrought will be so severe that humans, as we see ourselves today, will not survive. We will, necessarily, undergo changes. However, that is just opinion. We might die off entirely.

Anyway, that is what I meant.

Now, religiously... I have some other answers. Most specifically that any attempt to claim that future negative changes are
"what God wants", in the sense that we "should not work to prevent them" or, worse, should try to usher them along, is, well.. not the word of God. AND, many, many, many false prophets have spread those messages in the past, and always to great harm.

[BigBallinStalin]

I'm having a difficult time following you on this one, player.

We have a few real issues.
1. lack of sustainability in anything ... economics, trade, use of minerals, land uses, the environment

2. A sense of high entitlement by the wealthy. Sure, striking it rich, working hard is the American dream. However, so are other things. Things like living by the woods, being free from a city, raising kids in a crime-free environment without requiring armed gaurds, having friends and family all around, etc. When folks who get lucky in the stock market, etc decide that they got wealthy because they worked hard and other people don't because we are all just lazy bums... THAT is like Marie Antoinette saying "let them eat cake" when told that people could not buy bread.

3. Destruction of our "root" systems, the base of our economy. Agriculture, industry and labor. We can trade in cyber tech, ephemeral derivatives, etc, etc. However, unless there is, at the base, some real and true goods and services being sold and produced, the rest is all just skimming. Only so much can be skimmed from the foundation before it falls.

4. Growing intolerance for people with varied beliefs. Ironically mixed with a generation of much tolerance on other fronts -- race, gender, etc.

These conditions have been going on for awhile, some for thousands of years, and civilization has yet to collapse. Surely, it does in isolated cases, but those kinds in the past don't happen to notable or large civilizations of today.

As for number 3, the US has a strong industrial and agricultural sector, it just isn't labor-intensive since much of its mechanized. This is in no way a bad thing, and nothing is being destroyed except for traditional, less-effective means of production.

The world's top manufacturing country is the United States, as has been the case since before WWII. In 2007, the United States' manufacturing output was $1.831 trillion US Dollars (USD). This is about 12% of the USA's entire GDP (Gross Domestic Product), or $12,206 USD for every person in the 150 million-strong labor force

In 2007, the top manufacturing countries besides the United States were China ($1,106 billion USD), Japan ($926 billion USD), Germany ($670 billion USD), the Russian Federation ($362 billion USD), ....

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