Pope in the UK: Atheists Like Nazis

[tempest-n-a-tcup]

I'd be interested in seeing from whence most of your data comes as well.

[PLAYER57832]

I'd be interested in seeing from whence most of your data comes as well.

I don't have a chart. I listened to various discussions, most recently on the program "Fresh Air" (though probably 2 months ago, maybe more...) and debates, etc.

[nietzsche]

I give up, continue.

[2dimes]

"Your planet?"

No, but neither you nor I witnessed a person posting that, either. So are you saying THAT did not happen?

[nietzsche]

wait, I easily found a source: Wikipedia. Go ahead and flame wikipedia.

The classical period of witchhunts in Europe and North America falls into the Early Modern period or about 1480 to 1700, spanning the upheavals of the Reformation and the Thirty Years' War, resulting in an estimated 40,000 to 100,000 executions.[1]

Witch-hunts sponsored by the Roman Catholic Inquisition begin only in the Late Middle Ages. Although it has been proposed that the witch-hunt developed in Europe from the early 14th century, after the Cathars and the Templar Knights were exterminated, and the Inquisition had to turn to persecution of witches to remain active, this hypothesis has been rejected independently by two historians (Cohn 1975; Kieckhefer 1976). They showed that the Inquisition witch hunts originated amongst common people in Switzerland and in Croatia, who pressed the civil courts to support them. Pope John XXII had authorized the Inquisition to prosecute sorcerors in 1320,[10] but inquisitorial courts became systematically involved in witch-hunts only in the 15th century. In the case of the Madonna Oriente, the Inquisition of Milan was not sure what to do with two women who in 1384 and in 1390 confessed to have participated in a type of white magic. In 1484 Pope Innocent VIII issued Summis desiderantes affectibus, a Papal bull authorizing two inquisitors, Kramer and Sprenger, to systemize the persecution of witches.

[PLAYER57832]

In fact, immigration is the ONLY reason the Roman Catholic church numbers have not dropped more. The numbers of those brought up Roman Catholic in the US who continue with the church are dropping. (Washington time showed a .59% drop in 2007)

Unless you mean to tell me that an organization is dwindling even though it's outpacing world population growth; I fail to see your point.

The point is that kids growing up in the church are leaving more than they are staying.

Actually, this is not entirely true, either. When those figures are cited, they are based on what people declare themselves to be. A Roman Catholic who has not set foot in church for 20 years is more likely to still label himself as a "Catholic" than most Protestants. (I don't know about other religions in that regard) Also, in many places where Roman Catholicism dominates, there still just aren't other Christian options, not really. You are a Christian, you are Catholic.. pretty much "period". Not so in the US and Europe (and many other places).

You're introducing another standard into the mix? If someone declares themselves to be a Catholic, I'll not dispute them. If you do, then it's between you and them.

No, its that if you want to brag about your church's success, you have to accept that much of that stated "success" is really not success by the church's own definitions. You want to brag about the moral good the church is doing, but go ahead and count people who throw those morals in the trash.

You HAD to bring up missionaries, did you. Even in recent times, the Roman Catholic idea of "missionarism" has more to do with replacing culture and "westernizing" societies than spreading Christ's word. There are exceptions (certainly there are wonderul people who are Roman Catholic.. I thought a lot of Mother Teresa, for example) and sometimes a real message gets through in spite of human failings, but the fact is that some of the greatest harm in Christianity was perpetrated through Roman Catholic "missionaries". California has plenty of evidence of that!

What I said was that you do not need a college degree to decide for yourself whether someone is coming to help or to hinder. Johnny Rockets said that Churh growth in the world might have something to do with poor education. I said it could also have to do with people having a favorable opinion of an institution that showed up and tried to help. Both are possible. I made no claim that all missionaries were doing a great job that'd be silly. I doubt you could find any vocation where everybody did a great job.

Actually the growth DOES have to do with poor education. In many areas, the only way to get your child educated is to send them to Roman Catholic Institutions. However, before you start pointing to that as "altruism", you have to look at how and why the Roman Catholic church got there as the sole educational provider. That is a VERY mixed story. Only in recent times has the church really acted in a truly honorable, or truly Christian fashion. This is hardly a case of not everybody doing a great job. This is a case of an institution that not only condoned, but encouraged destruction of entire cultures, child abuse, etc as part of their attempts to convert populations. Within those travesties, are a few who truly did operate within the banner of what we now would call good education or missionary help. However, they too often were on their own in this.

[tempest-n-a-tcup]

Unless you mean to tell me that an organization is dwindling even though it's outpacing world population growth; I fail to see your point.
The point is that kids growing up in the church are leaving more than they are staying.

Which would generally indicate that the Church would be getting smaller not getting bigger. Young people might be leaving in some areas but the church is gaining them in other areas. It's really a simple matter of looking at the world population and the church population.

No, its that if you want to brag about your church's success, you have to accept that much of that stated "success" is really not success by the church's own definitions. You want to brag about the moral good the church is doing, but go ahead and count people who throw those morals in the trash.

You seem to have missed the many places that I've stated I'm not Catholic. You also seem to have missed the point that I stated a simple fact in response to the idea that the Roman Catholic Church was dwindling. Dwindling would seem to indicate diminishing in size when the opposite appears to be true. You don't know any more than I do about the morals of people that don't attend Church regularly.

Actually the growth DOES have to do with poor education. In many areas, the only way to get your child educated is to send them to Roman Catholic Institutions. However, before you start pointing to that as "altruism", you have to look at how and why the Roman Catholic church got there as the sole educational provider.

Let me preempt you here. Find an institution that educates children without an eye toward forming future opinion.

[tempest-n-a-tcup]

wait, I easily found a source: Wikipedia. Go ahead and flame wikipedia.

Sorry that you went to the trouble. I had agreed that witch hunts had happened and that they were terrible. I also stated that they were not uniquely Catholic or even uniquely religious (as your citation states some began among the layity who pressured the Churches to follow along), which they did. I said they were terrible but thankfully we all seem to have moved on from that stage of history.

It was the burning of scientists for which I asked you to show names and dates.

[tempest-n-a-tcup]

Look guys, hey! Go ahead and hate Catholics and the Catholic Church. This stage of the conversation has basically turned into an attempt to overpower through the simple will to keep typing rather than have a dialogue.

[BigBallinStalin]

"Your planet?"

No, but neither you nor I witnessed a person posting that, either. So are you saying THAT did not happen?

I'm sorry, what was the question?

[Johnny Rockets]

Look guys, hey! Go ahead and hate Catholics and the Catholic Church. This stage of the conversation has basically turned into an attempt to overpower through the simple will to keep typing rather than have a dialogue.

I don't hate Catholics. I don't respect those who don't push for reform, or don't acknowledge the wrongs or the need to right them, and prevent future ones.

I think the Catholic Church does good in the world, but has an awsome potential to to much much more if it didn't tie it's hands with ancient dogma.

I think the cardinals are an old boys club, and future popes will be chosen among the outdated thinking clique.

What would be really cool? A thirty year old Pope.

That would shake things up.


Johnny Rockets

[2dimes]

I'm sorry, what was the question?

I don't know, I couldn't crack the code.

[jonesthecurl]

Look guys, hey! Go ahead and hate Catholics and the Catholic Church. This stage of the conversation has basically turned into an attempt to overpower through the simple will to keep typing rather than have a dialogue.

I don't hate Catholics. I don't respect those who don't push for reform, or don't acknowledge the wrongs or the need to right them, and prevent future ones.

I think the Catholic Church does good in the world, but has an awsome potential to to much much more if it didn't tie it's hands with ancient dogma.

I think the cardinals are an old boys club, and future popes will be chosen among the outdated thinking clique.

What would be really cool? A thirty year old Pope.

That would shake things up.


Johnny Rockets

Yeah, except he'd keep the job for 60 years. So you'd better hope it's a decent one. Imagine they gave the job to ,say, tzor...

[2dimes]

That might not be as bad as you think, 30 year old tzor might not be all messed up yet.

[BigBallinStalin]

I'm sorry, what was the question?

I don't know, I couldn't crack the code.

I'll stop messing with ya!

When you said "Your Pope?" I heard Keanu Reeves saying "Your planet?" in The Day the Earth Stood Still

[2dimes]

I'm sorry, what was the question?

I don't know, I couldn't crack the code.

I'll stop messing with ya!

When you said "Your Pope?" I heard Keanu Reeves saying "Your planet?" in The Day the Earth Stood Still

Now I must seek clip on youtube. I don't think I want to sit through and entire "Non Ted Theadore Logan" Keanu movie currently.

I'm still curious how Playa jumped to typing "my pope?" from me suggesting that she could not know the pope was a rapist, unless you were with him all the time to make sure.

[BigBallinStalin]

I'm sorry, what was the question?

I don't know, I couldn't crack the code.

I'll stop messing with ya!

When you said "Your Pope?" I heard Keanu Reeves saying "Your planet?" in The Day the Earth Stood Still

Now I must seek clip on youtube. I don't think I want to sit through and entire "Non Ted Theadore Logan" Keanu movie currently.

I'm still curious how Playa jumped to typing "my pope?" from me suggesting that she could not know the pope was a rapist, unless you were with him all the time to make sure.

It's on the trailer for the movie. i wouldn't want you to watch that god awful remake.

[PLAYER57832]

I'm sorry, what was the question?

I don't know, I couldn't crack the code.

I'll stop messing with ya!

When you said "Your Pope?" I heard Keanu Reeves saying "Your planet?" in The Day the Earth Stood Still

Now I must seek clip on youtube. I don't think I want to sit through and entire "Non Ted Theadore Logan" Keanu movie currently.

I'm still curious how Playa jumped to typing "my pope?" from me suggesting that she could not know the pope was a rapist, unless you were with him all the time to make sure.

Reading too quickly, and while distracted at that.
But it seemed like everyone was having so much fun poking me... I let it go.

[2dimes]

I think I found it, he's in the hospital bed. The best clip was a review from, "spill.com" I think, it was animated and pretty funny.

[PLAYER57832]

Look guys, hey! Go ahead and hate Catholics and the Catholic Church. This stage of the conversation has basically turned into an attempt to overpower through the simple will to keep typing rather than have a dialogue.

No one but you is talking about "hating Catholics" (though the correct terms are Roman Catholics and the Roman Catholic Church, not simply "Catholic").

As for the church... if disliking many things the church has done means we "hate " it and are simply "bashing".. then there truly is no point in dialogue.

... and thank heavans most Roman Catholics are not that obtuse or the church never would have changed, never will change further.

[2dimes]

I don't think we can prove the pope is not a rapist.

Further regardless of wether or not he himself engaged in it, I have a problem with accepting the fact that they hid leadership position members that were taking advantage sexually of young people. I feel that might be sufficient grounds for letting the abortionist shooters loose at the Vatican.

[tzor]

That might not be as bad as you think, 30 year old tzor might not be all messed up yet.

Let's find out ... (Jumps into the TARDIS) ...

The year is 1991. Tzor has just moved to Key West, Florida and is currently working for the Mult-Player Games Network. Most of his evenings are spent playing D&D with his co-workers. It would be years before his mind was corrupted by Barbershop Harmony Singing, although his co-worker has already infected him with the dreaded disease of excessive punning.

[2dimes]

Florida, I bet he left out some incedent with alligator/s.

[tzor]

Don't be silly, aligators live up north ... in the swamps of Miami.

(Note: only someone from Key West would ever call Miami "north.")

[Timminz]

(Note: only someone from Key West would ever call Miami "north.")

Them, and the Peurto Ricans.