[Official] Choose Your Own Mafia - TOWN WINS

[madmitch]

I'm lonely

[Marashu]

DAILY VOTE COUNT


ptlowe: AoG, Streaker, Pixar, benga, Sausage
skw: Tim
Epi: Mets, madmitch, HotShot, Wing
madmitch: dakky,
AoG: Epi
HotShot: Endgame, ptlowe

Not voting:subtleknifewield

Deadline is 1600CCT, Sept 29. With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.

[*Pixar*]

I'm keeping my vote on ptlowe because I simply still don't believe his rushed claim. If he does happen to turn town his role doesn't effect us too much am I right?

[Endgame422]

Looks like either epi or PT.
HS needs 6 votes in roughly 48 hours and i dont think its going to happen today.
PT seems the safe choice being vanilla but nothing ventured nothing gained.
UNVOTE
VOTE EPI

[ptlowe]

Looks like either epi or PT.
HS needs 6 votes in roughly 48 hours and i dont think its going to happen today.
PT seems the safe choice being vanilla but nothing ventured nothing gained.
UNVOTE
VOTE EPI

EPI is thid so unless people are sure about him being scum we could lose a very strong town vote. I think people are rushing to vote him scum but I dont see any evidence. Mets in particular is really pushing. Its be better to vote me then him. At least we wouldnt lose a good role. Also, I am not going to vote against him and Tims not back till Monday. So that leaves all the remaining players not voting for me or him to vote for one of us or we need to switch some votes. Again Id rather be taken out then lose a good role. Also, even if Im dead if my group wins I win. So go ahead and kill me a town players if you guys want since you havent been able to pick up reads in 8 days.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

PT I've been there too. If you are town, never ask to be lynched. The only thing you know is your own alignment.

[ptlowe]

Spoiler

Really? How many times have I said that AoG is one of my scummiest reads?

You've said it multiple times, in fact. Let's look at them:

Need to hear more from HotShot, Streaker, sausage, Army of God, benga and virus. After looking at their posts, I would be on board with pressuring any of them. These guys are in the bottom two tiers and really haven't added anything to the conversation. I'm willing to cut Streaker a little slack so far since he said he would be gone, but I expect him to pick it up. Heck, I expect everyone listed to pick it up.

Now, prior to this post, aside from jokevotes, AoG had said precisely only the following:

• I feel like Endgame is scummy. He's pushing so hard to try to get out of the joke vote stage when he's the only one that sees any danger. I feel like he's scum or an sk trying too hard to act townie
  
  unvote vote endgame

  yeah, FOS Mets. trying hard? I'm not the one freaking out and telling everyone to get out of the joke vote stage less than a 10th into the actual day

Immediately before the 10:02 AM post (CC Time), AoG did post something more substantive. It landed one minute before Epi posted, and Epi indicated that he had been fastposted, so it didn't factor into his decision to poke AoG for being quiet.

I agree for the most part. I bet the bomb is in the top five people (have fun thinking about that, scumbags). However, I actually think AoG is in the top three scummiest.

Note how in less than the span of two hours, AoG went from someone we need to hear from, to top three scummiest. There's no acknowledgement of the more substantive post at 10:01 AM, which was:

• haha oh god
  
  this is such a mess. Everyone's pointing fingers and there isn't any sense of a clear D1 vote.
  
  
  there has been a lot of questionable logic so far. All I know for sure is that power roles are more likely to be at the top of the draft, but role does not equate to a alignment.
  
  I think we should focus on the bottom of the draft. We're less likely to hit a power role player so it seems low risk-high reward.
  
  I'll unvote vote ptlowe for the time being since his "if I'm town, wing is scum" comment was weird at best. And I don't really want to splinter the vote even further.

Now it's possible that this was updated in Epi's views, but we don't get an explanation for why he's scummy. We just get "he's scummy." Continuing the next day:

What do you guys think about AoG? Take a look at his posts--it won't take long. He's one of the people that stuck out the most to me when I was reviewing quieter players' posts.

This confirms that Epi had already decided he had a problem with AoG based on the two substantive posts. But again, no reasoning.

Explain your town read on AoG.

He's hardly contributed anything to this game. Barely posts, states the obvious when he does post. His only read came when he accused End of trying to move past the jokevote stage. . . that's either a terrible read or it was tongue in cheek.

I'm leaning town on End btw.

End wanted to move past the joking and get down to business. I don't see how that can be construed as scummy.

Its trihard, especially the way he did it. If you notice it was actually AoG who took us out of the jokephase, but he did so by building a case. It wasnt forced, it waas a natural progression.

So, that's where you get your town read on AoG? His "case" was that Endgame wanted to get serious, which I find specious reasoning at best. Anyway, he wasn't the one who took us out of the joke vote phase

Now, reasonable people may disagree with WCG's analysis here. But at this point Epi has clearly already decided that AoG is scummy and is trying to make the evidence fit his view rather than allowing the evidence to mold his view. Which indicates that he's not out to actually find scum, but is trying to target AoG in particular for some reason. Needless to say, pro-town players don't do that.

But then, things get stranger:

I understand AoG's explanation of his vote on Endgame, but I still haven't liked his play overall this game.

Somehow the situation went from AoG's case on Endgame being "specious reasoning," to now Epi "understands [his] explanation." Again, no reason given for the remarkable shift in perspective. And again fitting the pattern of having an axe to grind against AoG, rather than admitting that he really doesn't have a case at all.

Next, we have:

My issues with AoG have to do with the lack of contribution in the game--I'm not going to make a long post explaining all that when I can do it in a few sentences.

No one really seems interested in pursuing AoG despite my multiple appeals. I'm not going to browbeat you guys into following this lead, especially when it's D1 and there isn't a ton to go off of. I put my suspicions on the record, if people want to come with me on this, by all means.

You hadn't been making any appeals or giving any reason at all. None of us followed the lead because you never made a case, you just kept on repeating how you've been on to him ever since he wasn't contributing enough in the first day or two. Now, it's reasonable to be suspicious of someone for not contributing -- but it's not like a lack of contribution is some special radar that only you are equipped with. If the only thing you've got on AoG is that he's not contributing enough -- well, we can all see exactly how much he's participating. You've got to do better than that for one of your top scum picks!

6.Army of GOD - didn't like his posts for a long time. He's picked up his activity since I started calling him out. I'm not as hot to trot on him as I was at first, but he's still on my short list.

Not much else left to say at this point. You don't have a case, and you never had one.

Unless hes your scum buttbuddy and then of course you would defend him. Just figured Id throw that in there. Thats a pretty crazy defense for someone who doesnt know for sure. Unless you do because you are aligned together. Normally you only defend yourself that much. Soo mets are you scum?

unvote vote mets

[Epitaph1]

Since I'm at L-3, potentially L-2 if the double voter is on me, it should be known that I did get the role I asked for.

---

Mets, fortunately for you (and probably everyone) I don't have the time to get into a lengthy post atm. If I did, I would give you a nice long breakdown of my thoughts on AoG throughout the day, including plenty of quotes by him.

Suffice it to say, my opinion of him is based on what he has and hasn't posted. My opinion has even changed on him throughout the day and I've said so. However, your case on me is that I have tried to force a case against him based on nothing. Obviously it's not nothing because the biggest defense of him so far is "he acts scummy when he's town." Hmmm, so I'm not the only one who has found his actions scummy.

And as for getting Hotshot's vote: don't laud yourself too much for that one. A number of people have him as one of the top scum and his vote is a total bandwagon.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

The question that bugs me; Why is Mets not the Vig?

I however, dont believe this to be a question that needs answering today. AoG and Mets may be scumpartners, but its not something I believe strongly currently.

[Metsfanmax]

Mets in particular is really pushing.

I don't ever really push a case in mafia. I just lay my reasoning out there, and it's up to everyone else to choose whether to follow it. Despite everything I have said, it remains true that most D1 lynches are mislynches, and by that logic I am (probabilistically speaking) likely to be wrong about Epi. So it's up to the rest of you to decide whether you find something scummy in his play or not. If you don't, I'm not going to argue with you over it.

Unless hes your scum buttbuddy and then of course you would defend him.

No, that's silly. AoG hasn't been in serious danger of being lynched today. If I were his scum buddy, why would I go around making it so obvious when he's not really even in trouble?

Thats a pretty crazy defense for someone who doesnt know for sure.

This is just bad reasoning. My arguments have completely not been a defense of AoG; they are an attack on Epi. I am not saying now, and have never said, that I read AoG as town. I'm pretty neutral on that right now. All I've said is that Epi doesn't have strong reasoning for thinking AoG is not town.

Obviously it's not nothing because the biggest defense of him so far is "he acts scummy when he's town." Hmmm, so I'm not the only one who has found his actions scummy.

Yes, but when it has been pointed out multiple times by multiple players that AoG always sounds scummy, regardless of alignment, you just shrug and say "whatever, I still think it's evidence that he's scummy." Which leaves you with little town cred.

And as for getting Hotshot's vote: don't laud yourself too much for that one

Obvious joke was obvious, lol.

The question that bugs me; Why is Mets not the Vig?

Vig is not consistent with my playstyle. I don't like having that role, so I didn't select it.

[ptlowe]

Again with the dissertation. Further makes me think your scum.

[Metsfanmax]

Again with the dissertation. Further makes me think your scum.

Whatever makes you happy, my friend.

[Army of GOD]

Mets is a little smarter than "my fellow scum is being voted on, I'm going to jump to his defense!"

that's a awful mafia play if we were both mafia.

[ptlowe]

Mets is a little smarter than "my fellow scum is being voted on, I'm going to jump to his defense!"

that's a awful mafia play if we were both mafia.

Or maybe you think players would think he was smarter than that and thus he is actually doing that with the gamble we would be countering it with thinking he was smarter than that.

[TimWoodbury]

okay folk im back from training and home. i see we have a deadline extension till i believe Tuesday. So virus is replaced so im gonna start off going with unvote

[TimWoodbury]

i think that pt or epi will be the best shot of a lynch before the deadline, but before i can go put my vote on either of them im gonna have to go through and re read it all tomarrow.

[dakky21]

i think that pt or epi will be the best shot of a lynch before the deadline, but before i can go put my vote on either of them im gonna have to go through and re read it all tomarrow.

So you think pt or epi are the best shot, but you will still have to re-read it all? If you need to re-read, why do you think pt or epi are the best options?

[Endgame422]

Mets is a little smarter than "my fellow scum is being voted on, I'm going to jump to his defense!"

that's a awful mafia play if we were both mafia.

Or maybe you think players would think he was smarter than that and thus he is actually doing that with the gamble we would be countering it with thinking he was smarter than that.

Lol.
Welcome to mafia.
And if your town you never advocate a lynch of yourself.100 percent chance your town(from your perspective of course),vs whatever percentage sure you are that epi is town. Getting yourself killed is a bad gamble.PRs work both ways and im ignoring the draft entirely at this point,as are you by voting mets.

[ptlowe]

Mets is a little smarter than "my fellow scum is being voted on, I'm going to jump to his defense!"

that's a awful mafia play if we were both mafia.

Or maybe you think players would think he was smarter than that and thus he is actually doing that with the gamble we would be countering it with thinking he was smarter than that.

Lol.
Welcome to mafia.
And if your town you never advocate a lynch of yourself.100 percent chance your town(from your perspective of course),vs whatever percentage sure you are that epi is town. Getting yourself killed is a bad gamble.PRs work both ways and im ignoring the draft entirely at this point,as are you by voting mets.

Im just pressuring mets. Only vote on him atm so no risk of killing him. Just trying to show hes not immune to scrutiny,

[ptlowe]

And on top of that I am unwilling to vote epi or and impossible to vote myself so not much else I can do based upon current swing of votes.

[subtleknifewield]

May not be able to get a vote in by deadline, am saying so now. If an extension of a day is possible to give me time to read the rest of th thread, that would be much appreciated, but I understand if it is not possible.

[Streaker]

Looks like either epi or PT.
HS needs 6 votes in roughly 48 hours and i dont think its going to happen today.
PT seems the safe choice being vanilla but nothing ventured nothing gained.
UNVOTE
VOTE EPI

PT seems the better choice though. Lying about being VT is what a good scum would do in that position. It's a safe claim, and if you don't get lynched you are virtually safe from NK.

Lynching Epi now risks taking out a PR (albeit not necesarilly a town one), but it will also narrow down the scum's NK's to a smaller top list. I don't feel that is a good deal.

PT's excuse that there is nothing else for him to do is weak. You can always give reads, analyze other player's posts, and with 2 days left you could start an entire new case (been done before).

FP'd by subtleknife:

Hey man, just in case you don't get extra time (unlikely since we already got 2 extra days): Look up posts from ptlowe, HS, and Epi. They are the ones 'most likely' to get lynched today and most discussion has revolved around them.

[ptlowe]

Looks like either epi or PT.
HS needs 6 votes in roughly 48 hours and i dont think its going to happen today.
PT seems the safe choice being vanilla but nothing ventured nothing gained.
UNVOTE
VOTE EPI

PT seems the better choice though. Lying about being VT is what a good scum would do in that position. It's a safe claim, and if you don't get lynched you are virtually safe from NK.

Lynching Epi now risks taking out a PR (albeit not necesarilly a town one), but it will also narrow down the scum's NK's to a smaller top list. I don't feel that is a good deal.

PT's excuse that there is nothing else for him to do is weak. You can always give reads, analyze other player's posts, and with 2 days left you could start an entire new case (been done before).

FP'd by subtleknife:

Hey man, just in case you don't get extra time (unlikely since we already got 2 extra days): Look up posts from ptlowe, HS, and Epi. They are the ones 'most likely' to get lynched today and most discussion has revolved around them.

Not sure where u got that weak exxuse from...ive been giving leads...check ue facts but i do agree on epi think its a bad lynch right now

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Lynching Epi now risks taking out a PR (albeit not necesarilly a town one), but it will also narrow down the scum's NK's to a smaller top list. I don't feel that is a good deal.

Epi will not be on the scum nightkill list if he is not lynched today, if he is town then he is too easy a mislynch D2 to be wasted on a nightkill.

[Streaker]

Lynching Epi now risks taking out a PR (albeit not necesarilly a town one), but it will also narrow down the scum's NK's to a smaller top list. I don't feel that is a good deal.

Epi will not be on the scum nightkill list if he is not lynched today, if he is town then he is too easy a mislynch D2 to be wasted on a nightkill.

That argument has a hint of WIFOM to it... and I'm not sure if it even holds up with 2 mafia factions and a SK on the loose.