[Official] Choose Your Own Mafia - TOWN WINS

[Marashu]

DAILY VOTE COUNT


ptlowe: AoG, Streaker, Pixar, benga, Sausage
Epi: Mets, madmitch, HotShot, Wing, End
madmitch: dakky,
AoG: Epi
Mets: ptlowe

Not voting:subtleknifewield

Deadline is 1600CCT, Sept 29. With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Lynching Epi now risks taking out a PR (albeit not necesarilly a town one), but it will also narrow down the scum's NK's to a smaller top list. I don't feel that is a good deal.

Epi will not be on the scum nightkill list if he is not lynched today, if he is town then he is too easy a mislynch D2 to be wasted on a nightkill.

That argument has a hint of WIFOM to it... and I'm not sure if it even holds up with 2 mafia factions and a SK on the loose.

Your argument is WIFOM too.

[Streaker]

Ok wing, why do you consider an Epi lynch better then a PTlowe lynch?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Ok wing, why do you consider an Epi lynch better then a PTlowe lynch?

Epi is more likely to be scum than pt

That should be the only consideration.

[Streaker]

Ok wing, why do you consider an Epi lynch better then a PTlowe lynch?

Epi is more likely to be scum than pt

That should be the only consideration.

I consider PT scummier then Epi, but my vote is being wasted where it is with only about 24 h left.
It's bandwagoning from me, but I did state I would support an Epi lynch way earlier then this, and I never liked the way Epi has been pushing AoG.

Unvote, vote Epi

[TimWoodbury]

i think that pt or epi will be the best shot of a lynch before the deadline, but before i can go put my vote on either of them im gonna have to go through and re read it all tomarrow.

So you think pt or epi are the best shot, but you will still have to re-read it all? If you need to re-read, why do you think pt or epi are the best options?

they are the best shot of a lynch today yes i wanna reread to see witch one i wanna throw my vote on as its been said before chances d1 lynch is a mislynch is high bt we can only hope that its not. i wanna reread as well as i was focusing a large portion of the dy tryg to get more out of virus but he was replaced while i was away so gotta recheck what people sad of epi and pt

[Epitaph1]

Lynching Epi now risks taking out a PR (albeit not necesarilly a town one), but it will also narrow down the scum's NK's to a smaller top list. I don't feel that is a good deal.

Epi will not be on the scum nightkill list if he is not lynched today, if he is town then he is too easy a mislynch D2 to be wasted on a nightkill.

That argument has a hint of WIFOM to it... and I'm not sure if it even holds up with 2 mafia factions and a SK on the loose.

I sure hope Wing is right. lol.

Also, glad to see Mets admit that I might be town after all. Thanks, Mets. For a while there I thought you were 100% certain that I am scum.

---

Ok wing, why do you consider an Epi lynch better then a PTlowe lynch?

Epi is more likely to be scum than pt

That should be the only consideration.

I consider PT scummier then Epi, but my vote is being wasted where it is with only about 24 h left.
It's bandwagoning from me, but I did state I would support an Epi lynch way earlier then this, and I never liked the way Epi has been pushing AoG.

Unvote, vote Epi

This vote is very weak. ptolwe and me both had 5 votes on us at the time Streaker changed over to me and he considers pt to be scummier.

---

That also makes me officially at L-2 if I'm lucky.

I'm the watcher.

I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you guys that I'm not scummy because that's rather self-defeating at this point. It would be like someone saying "I'm so humble". . . it just doesn't work.

So before anyone votes for me anymore (in case the double voter is on me), I'd like to give some final reads in case I day now or overnight. I'll even include some quotes so that Mets knows that I have some reasoning behind my thinking. Afterall, that's the big case against me. I thought AoG was scum and didn't give my full reasoning.

This is going to have to come in parts b/c of time.

[Army of GOD]

I find it interesting that Epi and ptlowe aren't considering each other as scum, even though consensus at this point is that they're both the most scummy.

If one flips red, I think the other is more than likely red

[Epitaph1]

Mitch - leaning scum.

mitch gets a lot of leeway because he's a newer player and I have no issue with that. Claiming without pressure was not good, but it didn't make me think he was scum right off the bat-- I thought that he was just trying to prove he was a town player, which happens sometimes. He was asking people about their reads earlier on and pushed Tim a little bit, which seems towny.

However, this quote really changed my mind on him:

does mafia A and mafia B know each other? can they talk all together at night or just in their group ? will this information make it easier to find them? my scum radar is a screwed up now with Pixar joining us. still think Tim is scum but also wondering about some of pixars remarks, also Pt is playing scummy.shit I don't know!! day 1 is a pain

I know mitch is newer, but he's not that new. Part of it is because he acted like he didn't know that 2 mafias would operate independently, but also he acted like he didn't know what to do because 1 inactive player was replaced. It struck me as feigned ignorance and reminded me of his play in HP mafia when he used comments like this to avoid any pressure throughout the game.

He reacted pretty strongly when people pressed him on this and eventually OMGUS'd me when I voted for him (and it was a bandwagon), which doesn't help him imo. He did that in HP mafia too.

HERE we go again, I am playing different must be scum,have not posted much because of family illness, was not all together sure of mafia A and B ability to talk to each other or not ,sorry I asked,Dakky voting for me is doing what Tim wanted get rid off the bottom players we are not worth anything,also Tim saying I should of known what mafia a and b are able to do is bullshit,i only been in about seven games and I am still learning and fucking up but Tim been in three games and states he knows a and b abilities how? UNLESS YOU ARE ONE ,okay okay maybe I am still mad that he hammered me last game but for now I still think he is scummy when I get my brain strait I will reread everthing and try to make a better judgement ,but for now my vote sticks

The only other read he's given is that he's leaning scum on benga, but that was only after I prompted him.

Mitch, who are you willing to lynch right now.

Me and who else?

Still you but benga's push for night has me wondering about him and why the big rush .unless he has gifts or works better at night .possible scum there

His contributions really dropped off after people busted his chops on the whole Mafia A and B question.

So, if I had to guess, I'd say mitch is scum. But he could have just made a number of rookie mistakes today.


The other people I'm going to review are Wing, Hotshot, and. . . .AoG. It's possible my opinion of them might change after reviewing their posts as a whole, but I'll let you know when I do it. If I have more time, I'd really like to revisit Streaker after that last vote. He even admits he thinks ptolwe is scummier and his vote is bandwagon. . . wtf.

In case I don't get everything put on the record, I'm leaning town on ptolwe, Tim, and even Mets if you can believe it. In short, Mets spent a lot of time not only going after me and attached himself to AoG, whether he likes it or not. He's backtracking on the AoG defense now, but he's vouched for AoG and the whole reason he went after me is because he didn't think I had a case on AoG. I just don't see him putting his neck out on a hard read and going so far out of his way to discredit my opinion of AoG like that if he's scum/trying to avoid scrutiny.

I feel the need to vouch for AOG. As he says, this playstyle really isn't unusual for him. He strikes me as much more town-aligned this game than he has in other games, if anything.

What I know from these two things above; when I see a change in play, even if it from a player that normally appears scummy becoming less so, it trips a red flag in my mind.
However; mets' vouch has resonated with a few players, so we will probably have to let this lie for now.

I of course have considered the same angle, and I'm not giving AOG a hard town read.

--Mets gives his dissertation on me not having a case on AoG.--

This is just bad reasoning. My arguments have completely not been a defense of AoG; they are an attack on Epi. I am not saying now, and have never said, that I read AoG as town. I'm pretty neutral on that right now. All I've said is that Epi doesn't have strong reasoning for thinking AoG is not town.

fp'd

I call 'em as I see 'em.

[TimWoodbury]

im gonna go a vote pt im not wanting to be the hamer and have to throw a vote on 1 of pt or epi its hard for me to choose either one and the ONLY reason im puttig a vote is because its wrse for town to no lynch then it is to lynch a townie on a mislynch. im hopeing tat in d2 we can get more info out of people

[madmitch]

@ Epic

[Endgame422]

Streaker your vote there makes zero sense.
PT and epi have the same number of votes discounting your vote.
Either you arent paying attention or your trying to make an excuse to bump the watcher.

[Endgame422]

Actually you didnt know he was the watcher yet excuse me,but you still knew he was a high drafted player.

[Epitaph1]

Actually you didnt know he was the watcher yet excuse me,but you still knew he was a high drafted player.

I had already said that I got the role I asked for in the draft. He knew I was something good. Unfortunately, it's probably too late in the day to do anything about it.

---

HotShot - leaning scum

Nutshell: we've had 11 days so far, and HS has given us 2 reads/votes. 1 of which is on me based on Mets long post. Doesn't take many positions and when he does, he's piggybacking other players.

He begins by voting for benga then unvotes saying it was a joke. It sure sounded serious when he first said it, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Spoiler

Confirmed, seems like I'm late to the party. vote benga since he picked last, probably doesn't have an important role so no need to have him around.

I'm not sure whether I should hope mafia are near the top and so will kill each other, or to hope town is so if they survive they can help a lot. Unlike some choose your own mafia's, we can't use the draft order as any kind of hint, since everyone picked their numbers before the factions were handed out.

To those thinking I might have been serious with my vote, I wasn't... it was a pure joke vote. So just to be clear I'll unvote it

Wing first off i voted benga before you did.
Your post seems to imply i wagoned on your vote,which is not the case.
Just because benga was last does not mean anything.
He may have been the only player who asked for bomb,or busdriver or one of the more random roles,and got it whereas several higher drafting players all asked for cop and ended up vanilla(see dakky)
As to HS his vote seemed like a weak bandwagon onto your(flawed imo)logic which he immediately retracted when i called it scummy.
If he thinks we cant read anything from the draft but then votes based on the draft why does that not raise some concern here?
He gave reason for his "jokevote" but gave no reason for unvoting it.
Lazy bandwagon+trying to appease people to avoid being lynched.
Assuming benga actually starts posting i have no reason to keep my vote there.
UNVOTE VOTE HOTSHOT
As to dakky claiming VT at random,i would put dakky as soft town based on that.

As I said, it was a joke vote... which implies a joke reason... I guess I should have paid more attention to everyone else's joke votes to make sure I came up with a more unique one. And my "reason" for unvoting was because... it was a joke vote. And since some people seemed to take it too seriously, I removed it.

Why are people claiming VT right off the bat without even any pressure? Isn't half a VT's job to appear more powerful and absorb kills instead of more powerful roles?

He pops in every couple of days after explaining his jokevote to make a couple of comments. He does give his first real read and vote last Wednesday, which is almost a full week into the game:

Spoiler

I see ptlowe as a newish player and was told by a scummate to have a fake claim ready and he thought he was under pressure so he claimed. Just a guess but I'm thinking Wing is his scum buddy and trying to get the attention off him if he gets lynched.

Ohhh this makes me look like Im smart. Good idea. Let me Vote Wing to throw suspicion off of him.

What the actual crap. You have voted me because you think I am YOUR scum partner. Do you ever think?

For future reference this could all have been avoided. When I asked, "why did you vote me? Do you think I am scum?" this was an innocent question. At this point you should have said that it was a rash move based on emotion mostly. Thats perfectly understandable, especially for a new player. And I will unvote as such, but you protracted this out not me, I gave you opportunity to explain yourself. Its D1 we have to act on the smallest of remarks. Additionally, it will become obvious very quickly if you are not actually VT so your claim has very much saved your skin for now. That doesnt make it right.

I have a question for everyone. Why is nobody objecting to Epi's post suggesting we no lynch? That never ever benefits town.

Unvote Vote Epi

He is now following up with "Dont kill Tim", which plays into scums hands as its a kill they cant control. Tim should kill and he should not let anyone tell him who to kill. It is up to him. He has got a strong role and should use it. Not using the power town has is just asking to lose. It may do more harm than good, but thats the responsibility Tim has to take.

Epi doesnt like the fact I am making town reads, which is never good for town as it makes it harder to turn town against each other later in the game if they trust each other. This is why making town reads is so important.

Below is the closest Epi came to making a positive contribution to try and move the game forward. Read it carefully, all he actually says is kill the inactives, which is never beneficial to town. Even manages to say in the same line, SK might be at the top of the list, but I will not look there for the SK.


It should be noted Mets is also suggesting that the town vig doesnt use the most potent town power in the game as well. If the vig is no threat to mafia then they will find the cop even quicker.

@End Ptlowe and WCG is not polarized, it suits at least two factions in the game for it to appear so. Unlike in normal mafia there is little incentive for anyone to defend each other as there are multiple small factions.

Honestly, what scum would suggest no-lynching day 1? A newbie, maybe... but anyone who is experienced knows that the words "No-lynch" are almost immediately followed up by "lynch him!" I wondered how long it would take someone to jump on the easy case of "lynch anyone who mentions no-lynch", and it looks like you took the bait. To me, that's a negative for you. And then the suggestion that tim should just go shooting instead of maybe waiting until he actually has a little better idea who he is shooting out is also not good for you... and then all the pressure on a newbie over nothing, sort of like aage as scum did last game (as someone mentioned)... added up, that puts you as the one with the most negatives at this point, so I will vote Wing

And I agree with this assessment of wing, and not just because HS suggests that I'm not scum. This the third vote on Wing at the time. He never addresses wing again, nor gives any other reads, town or scum. His closest town read is that he doesn't find AoG "scummy by default."

Spoiler

Even Mitch and AoG have been making more reasoned arguments than their usual.

...

Sorry, that probably came out not quite how I intended... I meant that everyone often thinks you are scum whether or not you are just because of your style of posting, but this game you do not sound scummy by default to me.[/quote]

Then comes his vote on me:

Spoiler

Now met's case on epi has some good reasoning behind it... that's a case I can support. Creating inconsistent cases out of nothing to seem to be scum hunting is a common scum tactic (and one I use when scum lol). And since as others have said we do need to start consolidating votes more, I will unvote, vote epi

And I wasn't looking for a no-lynch in my last post... I just felt like a RNG could come up with as good of a list as I could since I didn't really have strong feelings on anyone really at that point.

He structures this vote much as the same way as Wing. Follows other players' leads and votes and says just enough for it not to come across as a bandwagon. Doesn't seem to analyze the case against me too much but just goes with it. Because this vote lacks critical thinking, it smells of bandwagon. HS just agrees with what Mets says but doesn't add anything new or look back to see if Mets' assessment holds weight.

I'll get into my thoughts on AoG next and show the basis for my opinion of him and how it has evolved throughout the day. Before you say, "why didn't you do that first?" it's because this will most likely take longer than my assessments of HS and mitch and I might die soon.

tl;dr version

After 11 days, HS has basically skated through the day with minimal effort or participation. He's given 2 serious votes and little to no reads. We don't even know if he still thinks Wing is scummy or if I'm the only person he finds scummy. Who does he think is town? Why? Both of his votes have piggybacked other players' reads/votes, so he's letting others do the heavy lifting. I understand that RL happens and is more important than mafia, but this input is suspiciously low imo. I know I'm not the only one who thinks so either, as several people have noted HS as possible mafia/SK.

[ptlowe]

im gonna go a vote pt im not wanting to be the hamer and have to throw a vote on 1 of pt or epi its hard for me to choose either one and the ONLY reason im puttig a vote is because its wrse for town to no lynch then it is to lynch a townie on a mislynch. im hopeing tat in d2 we can get more info out of people

Can someone spell it out for me why its worse for town on a mislynch than a no lynch?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

He structures this vote much as the same way as Wing. Follows other players' leads and votes and says just enough for it not to come across as a bandwagon.

Did you mean to insinuate that I have been bandwagoning? You'll find that I have started most of my cases whereas Hotshot has joined the majority vote everytime, and why I agree that he is scum.

Ptlowe -If we lynch Epi and he flips town, then we know that these posts he is currently making are not biased. We also can look at the players votes in light of Epi's alignment being known. If we do not lynch then we start D2 in the same position, albeit with less town players. Admittedly as AoG has tried but failed to eloquent, multiple players will die tonight and give us a lot to work with.

*Note: Substitute Epi for any other player.

[ptlowe]

He structures this vote much as the same way as Wing. Follows other players' leads and votes and says just enough for it not to come across as a bandwagon.

Did you mean to insinuate that I have been bandwagoning? You'll find that I have started most of my cases whereas Hotshot has joined the majority vote everytime, and why I agree that he is scum.

Ptlowe -If we lynch Epi and he flips town, then we know that these posts he is currently making are not biased. We also can look at the players votes in light of Epi's alignment being known. If we do not lynch then we start D2 in the same position, albeit with less town players. Admittedly as AoG has tried but failed to eloquent, multiple players will die tonight and give us a lot to work with.

*Note: Substitute Epi for any other player.

So I get this straight. Lets say for example. A town player is lynched today. Then we have 3 people killed in the night and they are all town. That leaves us with 4 town down and 5 enemies left. So we have a 6 V 5 on day to. Pretty much game over right?

[Metsfanmax]

If Hotshot is really scum and we catch him for such a pedestrian reason as straight up bandwagoning, I'm going to be sorely disappointed in his play.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

So I get this straight. Lets say for example. A town player is lynched today. Then we have 3 people killed in the night and they are all town. That leaves us with 4 town down and 5 enemies left. So we have a 6 V 5 on day to. Pretty much game over right?

No, because scum need to kill each other to win as well.

[ptlowe]

So I get this straight. Lets say for example. A town player is lynched today. Then we have 3 people killed in the night and they are all town. That leaves us with 4 town down and 5 enemies left. So we have a 6 V 5 on day to. Pretty much game over right?

No, because scum need to kill each other to win as well.

Serial killer only wins if hes last man standing?

[Endgame422]

PT your scenario is possible but i find it unlikely.
And even if its 6 town vs 5 scum,the scum are different alignments so they cant work together,only 1 faction can win here.
Town doesnt really lose until only a single townie remains,and with the varieties of NAs not even necessarily then. Potentially a single town player could win this.
Scum will start hunting each other if town gets weak. Its kinda like 3 player risk games with no spoils.

[Endgame422]

And yes SK must be last man standing

[TimWoodbury]

im gonna go a vote pt im not wanting to be the hamer and have to throw a vote on 1 of pt or epi its hard for me to choose either one and the ONLY reason im puttig a vote is because its wrse for town to no lynch then it is to lynch a townie on a mislynch. im hopeing tat in d2 we can get more info out of people

Can someone spell it out for me why its worse for town on a mislynch than a no lynch?

more or less what wing said, SK from what i understand wins by being last man standing (i could be wrong on that he may have some odd win condition where he can win with mafia and or town not a clue on that one.


when we start to get down to say 3-4 town players and 4-5 skum/SK then thats where it realy gets into whos said what/done what thoughout the game and with there being more townies the skum will HAVE to work together in each team and will hypothetically be eaisear to spot the skum to take them out if that makes since

[ptlowe]

Mod question for you. Lets say last two standing are bomb and SK. Who wins if the SK targets the Bomb during a night action?

[Army of GOD]

im gonna go a vote pt im not wanting to be the hamer and have to throw a vote on 1 of pt or epi its hard for me to choose either one and the ONLY reason im puttig a vote is because its wrse for town to no lynch then it is to lynch a townie on a mislynch. im hopeing tat in d2 we can get more info out of people

Can someone spell it out for me why its worse for town on a mislynch than a no lynch?

I think you're misunderstanding what Tim is saying. He's saying a no lynch is worse than a mislynch (I agree in this game)