Line of Duty Mafia game - DAY 1 Game on

[Ragian]

[...]
This is where my vote and conviction is, but you're acting as if I won't look at anything else meanwhile. That's wrong. Our lovers' spat is good for moving things forward because it's interesting to see who takes a stance and who steers clear of it. For instance (I chose only three):
- Annie has commented and somewhat taken a stance, which has the odour of town upon first read at least.
- Devante wants to get things going with the non-posters before playing. Fair enough.
- Charle, however, said that it's too early to ponit fingers. Now, that is interesting because he avoids siding, commenting, and committing. He didn't say that he found nothing in our back and forths, he said that it's too early. Any thoughts on that, Son!c? I still value your opinion.

Now, I've said my piece and feel like I should take a step back and watch the game. I'm taking Annie's hint (which it felt like).

(Where is Traf and Strike? Several others, the non-posters obviously, seem absent, but those two have caught my eye especially.)

That took one turn of a page and less than a minute. I've also spent a minute shortening it be removing the context quotes that were necessary at the time and just pinpointed my question and its context, I've highlighted the question to make it super easy.

[Ragian]

by, not be. Stupid early posting

[Charle]

Sonic and Ragian can either be both town or one of them are scum, but they are not both scum, as scum would probably know their scum partners. Some would say it is some kind of tactic for both of them to go for each other as scum partners so we think as per my first statement. I doubt that as they haven't talked to each other yet, but I can also be wrong. Maybe it is time to find out then? Unvote, Vote Sonic

Would love to hear what is Traf and Strike's version of our situation this far.

[SoN!c]

- Annie has commented and somewhat taken a stance, which has the odour of town upon first read at least.
- Devante wants to get things going with the non-posters before playing. Fair enough.
- Charle, however, said that it's too early to ponit fingers. Now, that is interesting because he avoids siding, commenting, and committing. He didn't say that he found nothing in our back and forths, he said that it's too early. Any thoughts on that, Son!c? I still value your opinion.

I already stated that i believe Annie to be town earlier so this not a question for me, just siding with me on that.

Then Devante is just Devante like we know him. Whats to comment then?

Charle is the fishy one out of those 3. Especialy now he does exactly what your question asks of him. Just not sure on the verb: Is it "does" or is it "acts"?

Also the longer it takes before the awol players post anything here i get more and more the feeling that they think that the waters here are too hot. And they better stay out of it as that is the safest play..can't blame them after seeing the massive attack on my character. I'll end with a quote: "if you have nothing to hide - please don't do it here".

[homer_jay]

Sonic and Ragian can either be both town or one of them are scum, but they are not both scum, as scum would probably know their scum partners. Some would say it is some kind of tactic for both of them to go for each other as scum partners so we think as per my first statement. I doubt that as they haven't talked to each other yet, but I can also be wrong. Maybe it is time to find out then? Unvote, Vote Sonic

Would love to hear what is Traf and Strike's version of our situation this far.

that would be some sort of 4-D chess if they're doing this to convince us one is town. don't see that happening though. drawing this much attention to each other makes one or the other very likely to be the first lynch. if they're both scum, they're making it really easy for us to at least start off on the right foot.

[Charle]

Also the longer it takes before the awol players post anything here i get more and more the feeling that they think that the waters here are too hot. And they better stay out of it as that is the safest play..can't blame them after seeing the massive attack on my character. I'll end with a quote: "if you have nothing to hide - please don't do it here".

I tend to agree with you here. Probably the reason why you Ragian and I are always going for each other even if we are in the same team!

[Loose Canon]

Ok I think its time for me to set an end of Day1 deadline - Saturday 14th March
If no majority of 8 for lynching then we will progress to night phase

Its unfortunate that players haven't posted, maybe don't know mechanism of game etc

BUT

Any players who don't post/turn up for duty at all during a Day phase will have any personal Night Powers SUSPENDED
eg no show at all Day1 no personal NIGHT POWERS Night 1

This force has crime statistics to protect and awards to win
Making the force look good is a team effort!
Good work everyone else, carry on as you are

[SoN!c]

Okay time for lists then..

We had a heated D1 sofar + ofcourse Scum overextended (Ragian).

On Ragian:

I agree with Charle that we often clash in past games, like Charle's Fun Mafia where Ragian stabbed my vote.

Still Ragian is lonely at the "Top Scum Behavior" and at the "Top Scum Moments" sofar, at least one third of the whole D1 is Ragians aggressive tunnel on me. It wears town down..


Ragians aggressive tunnel:

It started as a normal policy (D1 lynch/softclaim bad) but it evolved fast into a personal sealioning/meta-framing...

I agree with Kong that im a hyperactive lore king but im also a known softclaimer..so Ragians agressive D1 play makes no sense as town, but it sure matches a scum Ragian.

Also: the softclaim bait drew Ragian's reaction and everybody can see the aggressive tunnel...so lureking at work here

Remember our previous games:

In Vincent Vega: He was Scum (3P) and played it exactly the same: the same aggressive policy, the same framing on D1..

In Prison Mafia: Ragian was Town - He was Pushy yes but that was all...no aggressive framing D1 policy..

Same scenario's if you will in Charle's Fun mafia, Reid Technique debates..

D1 is just key to analyse Ragian. Because from D2 onwards his mind switches to "game on for real mode" and makes sure there is no telling anymore but a D1 Ragian always feels overconfident. Also his tunnel feels forced compared to other games where he was town.

key moments in D1 sofar =

1) Ragian defended DJ vaguely early.? Why? Was Ragian already laying the wet-work for his D1 plan and DJ was not in it?

2) Annieh shines as Town newbie: Detailed suspicions (Kingm ringlead, Ragian misframe), questions PR/claims logically, pro-D1 lynch but picky...

3) Charle had his "Too Early" moment; it looked like a dodge on content: Charle skips Ragian's analysis ("too early to point fingers"), but votes Sonic later on the same question just re-quoted.. Scum lurking in plain sight?

4) Kingm: Ringlead Denial (Gaslighting Town): Kingm: "lets start with riskmaster" (implies group), later it's "never said lets all". Annieh calls it out, and a weak defense follows. Classic lead-then-hide?... but in Kingm's defense he is low on energy these days so that could be just it.

5) we have too many lurkers, im glad LC sets a punishment if they keep hiding in safe waters

So in short:

Town Core: SoN!c, annieh, homer_jay (Adds solve, probes, logic), no scum overreach)

Neutral: Djfireside, Charle/kongming3 (little wagon?), Kingm (ringlead).

On Charle i must add that he is the "Wagon-rider archetype" sofar: Stays safe, opportunistic flip included, dodges real content..and no Ragian engagement whatsoever?. Djfireside calls him out perfectly (so a little FOS on Charle).

If Ragian flips scum then Charle will need to explain all the above.

Strong scum Lean: Ragian (a agressive forced tunnel lead)

Ragians Forced / Inconsistency Core
Ragian has also a "Inconsistency Core" this game: He ignores easy lurks (That is scum safe play).

he has a big PR Focus: D1 claim demand = That is a scum wet dream (NK list).


So Town should Pile Ragian. Because scum overplayed it and Ragian knows it.

[kongming3]

Limited availability until about this upcoming Wednesday, so apologies for that in advance. I disagree with Ragian that soft-claiming or similar moves is inherently bad town play or scum play. I think revealing information to scum for free is bad for town, but bluffing or lying or baiting out potential desired scum actions can be a useful tool (SoN!c could absolutely still be scum or incompetent town, but I take issue with the absolutes around the gameplay philosophy - particularly if the town player is taking advantage of additional info only they have access to to lay the trap and not just blindly flailing around). I'd be okay with voting SoN!c to claim with lynch pressure and seeing where that takes us, but unfortunately doesn't feel like that's a meaningful wagon to ride at the moment with 8 to lynch and some people still missing. Didn't like how Ragian is pro-lynching and made a big fuss about how he might have hit closer to home on scum about SoN!c than expected because of all the bluster and everything else, but hasn't voted for him (and I thought that was a weak statement in context). Unvote, Vote Ragian

Hoping to get more actionable info for town by day's end, or some sort of foundation or log for future days. And I apologize for wonky grammar and thought processes, but am severely sleep deprived. General ideas should still be accurate.

[Ragian]

Wow...attack on your character...seriously? Are you that full of yourself? It's a game, mate. Calm down

I've seen these tactics used in politics before. I wonder if giving you a medal, and perhaps some powder, would sooth your hurt butt.

And now a long post. Let me comment that before I leave for funsies Friday.

FP'ed by kongming3, fair enough. It's a free country. However, it's not "my opinion", it's a generally held opinion within mafia communities. However, you need to get something straight about that. I have voted for Son!c. It would be hypocritical to make such a strong case (soft-claim, dismissal, OMGUS-vote, butthurtery) and not vote for him. I'm not sure if you're not following the game or if you're deliberately trying to misrepresent me here. Both aren't great, but one is at least excusable.

[kongming3]

Also for the record, town should obviously be accurate and truthful and speak up when the information will be beneficial and potentially actionable to act upon, or would help make a better decision/avoid a pitfall etc. Should also keep in mind to judge when the immediate benefits of coming out with night info outweigh getting a more long-term cache of night information with consideration for risk of being silenced at night without ever revealing anything, or being disrupted once going public. If I'm lying about information or my role as town, it should be in service of broader town goals - simplified examples would be lying or soft claiming to be a weaker role when important or soft claiming a pr when unimportant to make scum kill the weaker townsfolk roles, both help preserve town power going into later stages to solve for and disrupt scum.

[kongming3]

Fped, brain foggy as mentioned so I apologize if I missed the vote, but as of the mod vote count on the last page no votes on Son!c have been counted. Could be mixup on my or Loose's end though.

[Ragian]

Okay time for lists then..

We had a heated D1 sofar + ofcourse Scum overextended (Ragian).

On Ragian:

I agree with Charle that we often clash in past games, like Charle's Fun Mafia where Ragian stabbed my vote.

Still Ragian is lonely at the "Top Scum Behavior" and at the "Top Scum Moments" sofar, at least one third of the whole D1 is Ragians aggressive tunnel on me. It wears town down..
Nah, you could've avoided all of this if you would've just answered at least some of the question posed, but your general demeanour after my vote has done you no favours.

Ragians aggressive tunnel:

It started as a normal policy (D1 lynch/softclaim bad) but it evolved fast into a personal sealioning/meta-framing...
It has nothing to do with your person. I don't know you. I'm playing a game. Sheesh...
I agree with Kong that im a hyperactive lore king but im also a known softclaimer..so Ragians agressive D1 play makes no sense as town, but it sure matches a scum Ragian.
Back this up, please. I asked you this once before and I'm asking you again. What is your data on me going for you having soft-claimed when scum versus when town? Moreover, being known to do somethnig that's not in town's interest doesn't make it cool. I'll be on you the next time you softclaim, too. It's bad play. Don't you think I should call out stuff I think is bad play?
Also: the softclaim bait drew Ragian's reaction and everybody can see the aggressive tunnel...so lureking at work here
I was wondering when you would try to spin your bad play as if this is all a brilliant ploy by you to catch all the bad guys.
Remember our previous games:

In Vincent Vega: He was Scum (3P) and played it exactly the same: the same aggressive policy, the same framing on D1..
I agree. I always play aggressively D1. It helps get the game going.
In Prison Mafia: Ragian was Town - He was Pushy yes but that was all...no aggressive framing D1 policy..
This is wrong. I always play aggressively D1. It helps get the game going. Everyone is free to go to the archives and read the games themselves.
Same scenario's if you will in Charle's Fun mafia, Reid Technique debates..

D1 is just key to analyse Ragian. Because from D2 onwards his mind switches to "game on for real mode" and makes sure there is no telling anymore but a D1 Ragian always feels overconfident. Also his tunnel feels forced compared to other games where he was town.
Is it because I'm voting you?
key moments in D1 sofar =

1) Ragian defended DJ vaguely early.? Why? Was Ragian already laying the wet-work for his D1 plan and DJ was not in it?
One should always be aware of who seems to be connected to whom. However, the rest is mad conjecture.
2) Annieh shines as Town newbie: Detailed suspicions (Kingm ringlead, Ragian misframe), questions PR/claims logically, pro-D1 lynch but picky...

3) Charle had his "Too Early" moment; it looked like a dodge on content: Charle skips Ragian's analysis ("too early to point fingers"), but votes Sonic later on the same question just re-quoted.. Scum lurking in plain sight?

4) Kingm: Ringlead Denial (Gaslighting Town): Kingm: "lets start with riskmaster" (implies group), later it's "never said lets all". Annieh calls it out, and a weak defense follows. Classic lead-then-hide?... but in Kingm's defense he is low on energy these days so that could be just it.

5) we have too many lurkers, im glad LC sets a punishment if they keep hiding in safe waters

So in short:

Town Core: SoN!c, annieh, homer_jay (Adds solve, probes, logic), no scum overreach)

Neutral: Djfireside, Charle/kongming3 (little wagon?), Kingm (ringlead).

On Charle i must add that he is the "Wagon-rider archetype" sofar: Stays safe, opportunistic flip included, dodges real content..and no Ragian engagement whatsoever?. Oh, so you DID want to comment on it after all. Well, better late than never. Djfireside calls him out perfectly (so a little FOS on Charle).

If Ragian flips scum then Charle will need to explain all the above.

Strong scum Lean: Ragian (a agressive forced tunnel lead)

Ragians Forced / Inconsistency Core
Ragian has also a "Inconsistency Core" this game: He ignores easy lurks (That is scum safe play). I don't even know what this means. But I like how you're both saying that I've overreavched as scum AND is playing it safe as scum. Now, eat the cake, too.

he has a big PR Focus: D1 claim demand = That is a scum wet dream (NK list).


So Town should Pile Ragian. Because scum overplayed it and Ragian knows it. What I do know is that it feels as if you're taking this way too personal. It's a game. It's also rich coming from someone who is known for bullying people with texting them in CC games to comment in mafia games, checking people's online status, and what not.

Have a nice Friday, everyone. HUGS AND KISSES FROM UNCLE RAGDOLL :*

[Ragian]

Fped, brain foggy as mentioned so I apologize if I missed the vote, but as of the mod vote count on the last page no votes on Son!c have been counted. Could be mixup on my or Loose's end though.

Uhh, just one final thing, then. So, is your vote on me based on something else...? I just want to be clear.

[Ragian]

[...]
@Son!c, are you saying that I deflated you when the newbie already caught you out? And given that you've already stated half your role, why don't you do us the honour of claiming fully? Vote Son!c You're being weird, and weird is defo enough to warrant a vote D1.[...]

If you want the actual post...

[Ragian]

Also, in keeping with funsies Friday

Okay time for lists then..

We had a heated D1 sofar + ofcourse Scum overextended (Ragian).

On Ragian:

I agree with Charle that we often clash in past games, like Charle's Fun Mafia where Ragian stabbed my vote.

Still Ragian is lonely at the "Top Scum Behavior" and at the "Top Scum Moments" sofar, at least one third of the whole D1 is Ragians aggressive tunnel on me. It wears town down..


Ragians aggressive tunnel:

It started as a normal policy (D1 lynch/softclaim bad) but it evolved fast into a personal sealioning/meta-framing...

I agree with Kong that im a hyperactive lore king but im also a known softclaimer..so Ragians agressive D1 play makes no sense as town, but it sure matches a scum Ragian.

Also: the softclaim bait drew Ragian's reaction and everybody can see the aggressive tunnel...so lureking at work here

Remember our previous games:

In Vincent Vega: He was Scum (3P) and played it exactly the same: the same aggressive policy, the same framing on D1..

In Prison Mafia: Ragian was Town - He was Pushy yes but that was all...no aggressive framing D1 policy..

Same scenario's if you will in Charle's Fun mafia, Reid Technique debates..

D1 is just key to analyse Ragian. Because from D2 onwards his mind switches to "game on for real mode" and makes sure there is no telling anymore but a D1 Ragian always feels overconfident. Also his tunnel feels forced compared to other games where he was town.

key moments in D1 sofar =

1) Ragian defended DJ vaguely early.? Why? Was Ragian already laying the wet-work for his D1 plan and DJ was not in it?

2) Annieh shines as Town newbie: Detailed suspicions (Kingm ringlead, Ragian misframe), questions PR/claims logically, pro-D1 lynch but picky...

3) Charle had his "Too Early" moment; it looked like a dodge on content: Charle skips Ragian's analysis ("too early to point fingers"), but votes Sonic later on the same question just re-quoted.. Scum lurking in plain sight?

4) Kingm: Ringlead Denial (Gaslighting Town): Kingm: "lets start with riskmaster" (implies group), later it's "never said lets all". Annieh calls it out, and a weak defense follows. Classic lead-then-hide?... but in Kingm's defense he is low on energy these days so that could be just it.

5) we have too many lurkers, im glad LC sets a punishment if they keep hiding in safe waters

So in short:

Town Core: SoN!c, annieh, homer_jay (Adds solve, probes, logic), no scum overreach)

Neutral: Djfireside, Charle/kongming3 (little wagon?), Kingm (ringlead).

On Charle i must add that he is the "Wagon-rider archetype" sofar: Stays safe, opportunistic flip included, dodges real content..and no Ragian engagement whatsoever?. Djfireside calls him out perfectly (so a little FOS on Charle).

If Ragian flips scum then Charle will need to explain all the above.

Strong scum Lean: Ragian (a agressive forced tunnel lead)

Ragians Forced / Inconsistency Core
Ragian has also a "Inconsistency Core" this game: He ignores easy lurks (That is scum safe play).

he has a big PR Focus: D1 claim demand = That is a scum wet dream (NK list).


So Town should Pile Ragian. Because scum overplayed it and Ragian knows it.

35 lines! Thirty-five

And the short version of those 35 lines is just more of the same bs "look at SoN!c Ragian - don't look at me!"

Toodles!

[SoN!c]

Ragian, you keep saying I’m taking things personally. I’m not. I’m responding to the weird case you’re building. If someone pushes a lynch on me Day 1 that hard, clearly based on an agenda, obviously I’m going to examine their reasoning..

That’s not personal, that’s literally the game.

At the start this was about a softclaim discussion. That’s fine. People disagree about mechanics all the time. But there is a difference between:

Pointing out so called "bad play" OR trying to lynch someone over it immediately, Especially on Day 1..

You turned a mechanics disagreement into a lynch case. Like it was a set-up from the start. Only a tunnel focus on me.

Also You say your play is "always aggressive Day 1 to generate discussion". But If your goal is generating discussion, it’s strange that your focus has stayed almost exclusively on one player (me) who is already engaging with you, while a large part of the table has barely participated and half the table that hasn’t even shown up yet..

+ In this "always aggressive D1 style" you defended DJ early on.
Why was that? Why did you not let DJ answer for himself?. Why not "always aggressive" there? Did it not fit in your scheme?

So instead of dismissing it all - like you keep doing - answer me this:

Why are you not engaging the arguments?
Why push me exclusively while ignoring lurkers?
Why the early DJ defense?

Also on a scale from 1–10, how confident are you that I’m scum?
Can you give three strong pieces of evidence that I’m scum — not just "bad play", but alignment-indicative behaviour?

And lastly:

You said this level of aggression is normal for you on D1.
Can you point to a previous game where you tunneled one player this hard this early?

[Djfireside]

Why the early defense of DJ in terms of Ragian?

Since im mentioned I did my own research again which ties back to my previous post on Charle, Kong and partially Son!c cause you/they were the catalyst. You can say now I'm reverse defending Ragian but i'm defending myself and just putting out what I see to not derail.

Just to reiterate history. I voted Son!c through a Joke vote just to get something out there, typical game and you can review everyone one of my previous mafia games and you will find something similar D1, icebreaker to say the least and gets things moving. Son!c voted me back, all is well. Then quickly Charle and Kong voted me with very shaky reasons and just bandwagoning, okay D1 gotta tie to someone but I dropped the joke vote and Son!c dropped off the bandwagon but they stayed and it even when it didnt go anywhere. They continued giving conflicting remarks that dont tie up and in my mind SCUMMY just to repoint why my vote is where it is and not dropping cause I have a suspicion which I don't think they can produce the same. Ill stop here cause this is the defense part and get into the rest afterwards.

First comment was

While I understand the thought there Annie, I would have to disagree with you on that premise. While there is a higher risk to hit town we need to start extracting information and getting a cadence going otherwise its just a free hit.

Vote Son!c for knowing lore.

Two good things here. Yes, we lynch D1. Don't hand over the hand to scum. Make them tremble. Also the vote on Son!c

Has Strike fucked off as I unwittingly told him to? That's a shame.

Granted picking on Son!c but not my place to answer that but otherwise agreeing with opinion.

I think they're joke votes too, but Strike was right in fucking off

Basically, you're saying that unless someone - which could be scum or town - makes a booboo, you'll settle for a no lynch, tonight's death of one or more townies, and any luck any investigative powers have tonight. If no luck, we'll just repeat that. Is that correctly understood?

Simply agreed that it was a joke vote and finally the last piece where he came to a defense of my position but this followed the Bandwagon described above.

I do not at all understand the suspicion of DJF. And I agree with Annie - whether ok or not - that Son!c having "strong" suspects this early raises an eyebrow. Either for him being way to inflated or wanting to seem town too much.

I still to this point don't get what the suspicion of me was either and obviously Son!c didnt either because they removed their vote on me.

I welcome Charle or Kong to state their suspicion of me but otherwise I agree with Ragians statement and dont take it as defense but a statement, What is the suspicion?

I cant speak to why Ragian has been poking at Son!c as even in my posts that is clear and maybe its because the two were the most active and banter produces banter and thats Ragian post to answer but I dont think anything tied to me showed wrongdoing.

[SoN!c]

It was just a throw in your pond to see what came out DJ..Nothing more. And then Ragian defended you there ending any outcome already before it even started (when he makes a firm stance about how he likes to"generate discussion on D1" all day long). Then it’s strange to see Ragian's focus has stayed almost exclusively on me in that context and he left any discussion on you out.

[strike wolf]

Hey all, apologies for absence. Usually busy stuff plus everything going on in the world and I almost forgot about this game entirely. I have read up though.

Ragian v. Son!c: While I wouldnt put it past either to bus their scum buddy and butt heads to throw town off the idea that theyre secretly aligned, this feels kind of early and aggressive for that. Perhaps because nothing else built, they felt stuck with attacking each other but more likely this is either an argument where one is town and the other scum, two unaligned scum players or town on town violence. If I had to pick one who seems more scummy, then I would lean Son!c. I dont recall Ragian tending to be this aggressive this early as scum and Son!c's vote back at him reads as overly defensive and a bit OMGusy. Plus, his comments towards me and Annieh did feel a bit buttery.

On other players: Annie is either a pro-mafia hustler from another site or town.

I think Homer_Jay is likely scum. His posts that Ive Seen so far feel very middle of the road and very safe. Particularly his posts at the top of Page 6.

[SoN!c]

Hey all, apologies for absence. Usually busy stuff plus everything going on in the world and I almost forgot about this game entirely. I have read up though.

Ragian v. Son!c: While I wouldnt put it past either to bus their scum buddy and butt heads to throw town off the idea that theyre secretly aligned, this feels kind of early and aggressive for that. Perhaps because nothing else built, they felt stuck with attacking each other but more likely this is either an argument where one is town and the other scum, two unaligned scum players or town on town violence. If I had to pick one who seems more scummy, then I would lean Son!c. I dont recall Ragian tending to be this aggressive this early as scum and Son!c's vote back at him reads as overly defensive and a bit OMGusy. Plus, his comments towards me and Annieh did feel a bit buttery.

On other players: Annie is either a pro-mafia hustler from another site or town.

I think Homer_Jay is likely scum. His posts that Ive Seen so far feel very middle of the road and very safe. Particularly his posts at the top of Page 6.

Thanks Strike! And im town 100% You can trust me on that.

Unvote

[hjelp]

Number 6 - 9 - 14 are silent players Cofari, Riskmaster and General Cod - I think. They are 3/15 - that's 1/5. Not sure of how many players are Mafia. Maybe 5?

[hjelp]

or 7 more likely ?

[kongming3]

7 feels incredibly unlikely. If it was 7 scum, we'd functionally lose immediately if we lynched town or didn't lynch anyone day 1. Not sure where those numbers are coming from.

[SoN!c]

Saying that there are maybye 7 scum around just reads "I know the exact amount of scum because im scum myself but i need to say something to throw town off like i don't know that fact at all.."

Most likely 3 or 4 scum i'd say, not 5 or even more